Public Safety Committee on April 25th, 2013

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

In terms of saving the effort and of police not having to do tasks that could be done by others—we talk about mental health workers and so on—in some communities there are designated traffic police officers who are only allowed to give tickets, etc. This leads us to question in some way what the role of the police officer is. If you have a designated quasi-police officer giving out traffic tickets, if you have mental health workers responding to calls where somebody is in crisis, at some point one must wonder whether the police officer's role is to be more an investigative role, a detective role, and by this I mean involving upgrading of skills to deal with the more complex problems we have today. Is this where we're heading?

It seems to me that one of the benefits of having a police officer respond to something, from a citizen's point of view, is the idea that if force is required that person can take care of the situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Scarpaleggia, your time is up, but I want the answer, so—

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Gruson, I think the question was to you.

[Geoff Gruson]

Mr. Chair, I think the member has hit on exactly the issue. The problem is that the police are required to do a broad continuum of roles, everything from directing traffic in a construction zone—at $93,000 a year—to dealing with cybercrime, with multinational, multi-fraud complexities. The problem is we don't want the $93,000-a-year person doing traffic direction. We want the $93,000-a-year person spending their time on the serious issues that are impacting the economy and impacting Canadian citizens in their communities.

The back end of your point was that every once in a while that guy or girl who's doing construction is going to have to deal with an incident. The police are right there, and of course they are. The only point I would make is that if we have competent, trained, capable people performing the role that they're competent to do, we'll be a whole lot happier than if we have competent, trained, qualified people performing the roles that the others are there to do, and we'll have a differentiation of compensation based on the competencies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

Our time is up for this hour. We want to thank both Chief Knecht in Edmonton and also Mr. Gruson for appearing before us.

Our committee is going to very quickly go into some committee business. We aren't going in camera for it.

As you know, we'll be doing some travel in connection with the study we've undertaken. Basically what we need is the go-ahead on the weeks that are available for the travel. We've talked about this in subcommittee. We also talked a little bit about it last week, but we left it that we would make a decision, and I think it's time to make that decision.

I will just go through what we've discussed. Yesterday we circulated the suggestions—

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Do you want to say goodbye?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I did say goodbye to our people here.

Thank you so much again for being here. Without suspending, we want to move into this next piece of business, so thank you.

The week after our break is the week of May 20 to May 25. The suggestion was that that would be the trip that would involve going into the United States and also to Prince Albert and Calgary. Are we all right with that? Are the other parties all right with that?

I see agreement. Are all in favour, just so we know?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Then the following week—that's the week you circulated, right?—between May 25 and June 1, would be the trip to the U.K. Are you all right with that one then?

All in favour?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

What's the date, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

The dates are May 25 to June 1.

Although we want our constituency time, we would be flying, depending on the number of people we get, on a Sunday night. That's kind of where we're at.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

That's for the U.K. one?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes.

So you would fly Sunday or maybe even before that. It might end up being Sunday afternoon.

I know a number of you have come to me and said you want your Saturday night event and you want to be able to stick around for that.

I see agreement there. All right.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

That's carried.

We'll invite our next guests to come to the table.

Good morning, everyone. We call this meeting back to order. We are continuing our study of the economics of policing in Canada.

On this panel we are going to hear first from Tammy Thompson, program coordinator of the START program. There was some paperwork circulated yesterday or last week, and you've received it again here today.

As well, from the Government of Manitoba, we have Walter Tielman. He is the area director of the Department of Justice, Interlake Region, for community and youth corrections.

Also, hopefully appearing by teleconference, from the Government of Saskatchewan—although we don't have them yet—will be Christine Tell, Minister of Corrections and Policing, and Dale McFee, Deputy Minister of Corrections and Policing.

Our committee wants to thank you for appearing here. Some had the advantage of sitting in on the first hour and hearing from Chief Knecht and Mr. Gruson.

We still don't have Regina. They're going to have to come in when we receive them, but perhaps we'll begin, starting with Ms. Thompson.

[Tammy Thompson, Program Coordinator, START Program]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you this morning to discuss the START program and our multi-disciplinary approach to working with at-risk youth and how it relates to your study of the economics of policing.

Eleven years ago, our community in Manitoba decided to work together to benefit the youth and their families who were the largest consumers of policing, child and family services, and probation services, while also showing significant school-based issues. These agencies decided to pinpoint the youth and their families, who had involvement with the agencies, yet didn't seem to be showing any significant improvement for it.

Their collaboration became the Selkirk Team for At-Risk Teens, or START program, and they were quickly joined by mental and public health services and addiction services. To date, this collaboration has resulted in over 1,800 case conferences on behalf of at-risk youth aged 11 to 18, with the goal of identifying, planning for, intervening, and assisting at-risk youth to become productive members of our community.

The key to the START model is the involvement of the youth and their family as part of the multi-agency team, and their ability to openly share and address what the real issues are. Understanding the reason behind the behaviour is necessary to creating a successful plan that provides a customized network of supports for the youth and increases their chance of success, while decreasing the burden on social service and policing agencies. Accountability is a big part of this model for the youth, the family, and the agencies. START also provides a longer-term approach—six months to years—depending on the intensity of the situation, as we have found that stabilizing a crisis is important, but it's not enough to build the required skills to prevent the next crisis from happening.

Many communities come together in multi-agency collaborations that eventually falter or are not productive, as all members of the group have another full-time job to do and it becomes onerous to maintain effectiveness, especially without consent to share information. The START model has a coordinator whose responsibility it is to set and chair the case conferences for the youth, to ensure that the youth and family feel heard and are engaging in the process, to advocate for the youth, and to follow up on plans created to ensure follow-through and ultimately a better chance at success, all shared with consent. This format works very well in smaller communities where there are fewer resources, or where workers are covering many areas, as the coordinator is able to ensure they are informed of any concerns or issues that arise with the client, even if they're not scheduled to see them for another few weeks.

The START coordinator is located in the RCMP detachment, making it easy for members to make client referrals of youth who are generating multiple calls for service and for the coordinator to share pertinent information with police when the need arises. We have been able to consistently show decreases in calls to RCMP after a youth is referred to START. Courts in our area have recognized the benefit of START and made participation in the program a part of their dispositions, and we frequently provide information to crown attorneys and justice committees to assist them in making more informed decisions. Additionally, START maintains a file that holds all the necessary information provided by each agency for each youth, a very necessary tool for situations where having all the facts at hand can assist any agency to make a more appropriate decision on how to intervene.

Our recent evaluation, funded by National Crime Prevention Services, has findings that are very favourable toward the program and speak to an increased inter-agency collaboration and achieving positive client outcomes for the vast majority of our clients, even with the continual increase in the number of client referrals each year and the risk level of the clients we work with. The program model has spread to three other communities in Manitoba and functions equally well with different demographics.

The START program is managed and funded by the involved community agencies and all three levels of government. Unfortunately, this year, our largest funder, Service Canada, is no longer providing funding to START or any of the other communities utilizing the model, leaving us with a shortfall that may be insurmountable unless we find another federal source of funding. This lack of funding also creates difficulties for other areas that are looking to duplicate this model in their communities but cannot get support at all levels of government.

It has been repeatedly said that law enforcement has become the front line for all social issues, and this will not change unless we offer a solution to coordinate the resources from all agencies to address the reasons behind the behaviours.

I have a quote in my office by Walter Barbee that says, “If you've told a child a thousand times and he still does not understand, then it's not the child who is the slow learner.”

If police are being called to the same home for the same reasons, and this happens often, then we haven't addressed the real issue and we need to look at the situation differently. That's what START does.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Ms. Thompson.

We'll continue with Mr. Tielman.

[Walter Tielman, Area Director, Department of Justice, Interlake Region, Community and Youth Correction, Government of Manitoba]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good morning.

Members of the committee, Mr. Chair, it is truly an honour and a privilege to appear before you today. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss the START program and its approach to working with our community's highest-risk youth and families.

START began as a response to a need to develop processes for various agencies in the city of Selkirk to communicate and plan effectively with its highest-risk youth and families. Agencies were already meeting and discussing cases in a well-meaning but often haphazard and uncoordinated fashion.

The various agencies also were not objective in how or why they would share information with each other. Sometimes information would be shared and sometimes it wouldn't be. This often depended on the motivation of various staff and their time availability to communicate and coordinate meetings with staff from other agencies.

There also often isn't a mandate that makes the sharing of information and case collaboration mandatory. In fact, there are often confidentiality barriers to sharing information with other agencies.

Case management policies often suggest that inter-agency collaboration is the preferred way to do your work effectively, but the degree to which different staff and different agencies actually do this is left up to the individual staff or individual program manager. Therefore, due to time and workload issues, which are significant, staff are often focused on meeting their individual agency mandate and not looking at youth, family, and larger community needs.

START addresses this with the help of a coordinator, who arranges and coordinates START or multi-agency case conferences. START has formalized this information exchange process and created a multi-agency management process to deal with the highest-risk youth and their families.

The impact of START has been very positive, as the silos of information in various departments have been broken down. The result has been the application of various departmental mandates and operating procedures toward a common set of goals and case plan with the youth and family.

START has changed the way my staff do their work. An example of this is that previous to START, my staff would sit in their offices, and virtually the only contact they would have with other agency staff in our communities was over the telephone or via the computer, largely due to time. They would carry out their duties and fulfill their mandate, often independently of other agencies' knowledge and/or involvement. Now all of my staff regularly attend START case conferences with other agency staff at various locations in the communities, and the START agencies all work toward a common set of goals that are case management-directed. This approach ensures that agencies are fulfilling their case management obligation to that particular youth and family.

Agency staff also explain what services they did or didn't provide to the START case conference from one meeting to the next, thereby enhancing service accountability. Also, if there are identified gaps in service, the START case management team strategizes on ways to meet the gap.

The impact of START has been to keep kids in school longer, improve family functioning, and hold youth accountable for their behaviour.

The impact of START has been significant. One of my staff said: “START is an invaluable resource to the community and to families struggling to stabilize their children. START can also bring resources to the table that are needed and not previously identified.”

Sergeant Mark Morehouse of the Stonewall RCMP detachment said that in the first year of the START model operating in that community, calls dealing with youth that were made to the detachment dropped by roughly 50%.

Our provincial justice funding support of three START model programs in Manitoba is a total of $21,000, which is a small investment compared with the benefit these services provide to the highest-risk youth, families, and communities.

The impact of START is also long term and preventative in nature by giving and guiding youth and families towards positive, pro-social choices.

Research has shown that multi-agency case management approaches are effective, and START has also shown this to be so. Our yearly evaluations have confirmed this, and our most recent evaluation, funded by National Crime Prevention Services, has shown that what we are doing is effective in the short term and preventative in the long run. This evaluation has also given us direction for enhancements and improvements, which we'll use to guide us in the future.

I personally believe that START and similar multi-agency case management programs are the way of the future for governments and agencies in meeting society's needs with its most troubled families.

I don't believe we can afford to do otherwise.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We have someone in Regina joining us through video conference. Can you hear me?

[Christine Tell, Minister, Corrections and Policing, Government of Saskatchewan]

Yes, we can.

Can you hear us?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You're coming through loud and clear.

We don't have the picture yet. But we didn't invite you to the committee to see what you look like; we want to hear what you have to say.

Perhaps we'll move directly to your comments. I'm not sure if I've already introduced you. With us is Ms. Christine Tell, Minister of Corrections and Policing.

Is the deputy minister, Mr. McFee, with you?

[Dale McFee, Deputy Minister, Corrections and Policing, Government of Saskatchewan]

Yes, I'm here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. It seems like only last week, or the week before, that we last spoke with you. It's good to have both of you here this morning.

We'll go to your opening statements.