Public Safety Committee on April 30th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Good morning, everyone. This is meeting number 83 of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, on Tuesday, April 30, 2013. We are continuing our study on the economics of policing in Canada.

On our first panel today, we welcome Deputy Commissioner Doug Lang, from the RCMP's contract and aboriginal policing division, and Inspector Tyler Bates, the RCMP's director of national aboriginal policing and crime prevention services.

Our committee wants to thank all of you, and indeed all of the RCMP. It seems every time we've put out the call for you to come, you have complied. We appreciate that.

I would invite you to make your opening statements. If you would field questions after that, we would be very appreciative.

[Deputy Commissioner Doug Lang, Deputy Commissioner, Contract and Aboriginal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Good morning, Mr. Chairperson and honourable members of the committee.

As noted, my name is Doug Lang. I am the RCMP's deputy commissioner of contract and aboriginal policing. That's the uniform branch, I say, of the RCMP.

With me today is Inspector Tyler Bates. He is actually a superintendent now, but promotions take a little while to catch up to us. He's in charge of our national aboriginal policing and crime prevention program.

Sitting in the back is Assistant Commissioner Janice Armstrong. Janice came down to watch the proceedings today, and I hope you don't mind. Unfortunately—or fortunately, for me—I'm retiring at the end of May. Janice is coming in behind me as the assistant commissioner of contract and aboriginal policing. This gives her a great opportunity to come and watch committee action in progress.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

She's welcome to take a chair at the table too, if she wishes.

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

Thank you for inviting me today to discuss the RCMP's contributions to contract and aboriginal policing, and policing in the north. I would like to take this opportunity to provide the members of the committee with some context of the challenges of policing rural and northern parts of the country.

As you know, the RCMP's contract and policing services has jurisdiction for over 70% of Canada, including eight provinces, three territories, approximately 150 municipalities, and four international airports. In many remote locations the RCMP are often the only government representatives in a particular area and take on the role of social worker, mental health professional, substance abuse counsellor, and a host of other roles, including our traditional role of law enforcement.

The RCMP also represents the only formal presence that oversees an ever-expanding international interest in the Arctic, and often has sometimes sole responsibility for Canada's sovereignty in the north. This is particularly evident nowadays where international tourism is expanding into Canada's north, for example, cruise ships and the associated impact this has on policing in the far north.

The RCMP is unique in that we provide policing services in diverse locations, from municipal detachments with hundreds of officers to small, rural, or isolated detachments with as few as two members.

In many rural locations government housing is provided and the cost of housing is astronomical. For example, recent expenditures for government accommodation in Rankin Inlet for a modular home was $600,000. A duplex recently built in Cross Lake, Manitoba was just under $1 million.

Members must remain available to respond to emergencies 24 hours a day. When we have members away on mandatory training or annual leave from a particular RCMP unit, the RCMP must maintain a minimum complement of two members in the community to respond to calls for service. A two-person detachment must then draw on relief from within the division, from a neighbouring division, or through the RCMP reservist program, which I will touch on later.

There are many isolated detachments hours away from additional backup and they're accessible only by air. Without an on-site police presence, they're policed via fly-in patrols.

As I mentioned earlier, an additional challenge facing the north is ensuring our members remain qualified in the various training and intervention options that we are required to employ. Most of our tools and skills require annual recertification. These include our incident management and intervention model, which is our use of force model; annual firearms qualifications; chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear response training; and in the near future, patrol carbine training as we roll out a new weapon in our firearms arsenal.

Other challenges include the necessity to bring members from the north to the south, where there are training centres to receive the training. This creates both financial and human resource pressures on those divisions. We have additional challenges in online training as there's a very slow bandwidth in the north. Rolling out online training created a significant drain on members' time. We have explored other options to mitigate these challenges. We have recently placed training material on CDs for our members in northern detachments that we had provided online in the south. Where possible, we look for efficiencies by partnering with other law enforcement agencies for similar training.

The RCMP employs a number of methods to alleviate the pressures of policing across the country. We have a reservist program that allows us to hire back our members, or members from other police departments, to address vacancies and human resource pressures where gaps exist. These gaps can exist due to retirements, long-term sick leave, maternity and paternity leaves, during special events, seasonally, or in emergencies when we do need extra help. Reservists may be former RCMP officers or peace officers within other provincial or municipal police agencies. They have the powers, duties, and responsibilities of regular members when they're called upon for duty.

In addition to the 29,000 RCMP employees, our service delivery capability is enhanced through the assistance of thousands of volunteers, the largest number of volunteers in the Canadian federal government. The use of volunteers enhances police efficiencies, responsiveness, and service delivery through their cultural awareness and community knowledge. These skills increase community engagement and maximize service delivery. Some of the activities that our volunteers perform include but are not limited to victims services, translations, foot and bike patrols, neighbourhood business and ski watch, home and business security checks, and some block parent programs.

In terms of aboriginal policing, the RCMP has maintained a rich and evolving relationship with Canada's aboriginal people over the course of history, going back to the early days of the North West Mounted Police in the 1870s. The RCMP first established a dedicated aboriginal policing directorate in the 1990s, which has evolved today into our National Aboriginal Policing Services.

More recently the RCMP has identified aboriginal communities as a strategic priority since 2003. To meet its objectives of safer and healthier aboriginal communities, the RCMP builds trusting relationships by partnering and consulting with the aboriginal communities we serve, in addition to other government organizations such as Public Safety Canada's aboriginal policing directorate and Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, as well as with non-government organizations such as the Assembly of First Nations, and the Native Women's Association of Canada.

We have aboriginal policing service units in every division across Canada. These units are responsible for overseeing, coordinating, and delivering services under the RCMP's aboriginal police program and first nations policing policy within aboriginal communities.

Each division's commanding officer retains aboriginal advisers to provide advice on cultural perspectives on matters pertaining to the delivery of aboriginal policing services. These advisers also report to the commissioner, in the form of a committee, to provide guidance and recommendations relative to national concerns and enhance the RCMP's ability to contribute to safer and healthier aboriginal communities.

Aboriginal policing service units lead and bring proactive, culturally competent policing to aboriginal people and the communities in which they serve. They seek to improve relations between aboriginal people, the RCMP, and the criminal justice system through strong and effective aboriginal policing initiatives. These include recruiting, crime reduction and crime prevention strategies, program development and delivery, and community tripartite agreement negotiations.

Recognizing that enforcement alone does not address crime victimization, some of the enhanced service delivery options that the RCMP employs are our community program officer and the aboriginal community constable programs. The community program officer is a bridge between the community and the RCMP. They are an unarmed non-peace officer function focused exclusively on community-specific crime prevention, engagement, mobilization, and crime reduction. Our aboriginal community constable is an armed and uniformed peace officer at the rank of special constable.

The community constable allows the RCMP to attract, develop, and retain people with specific linguistic, cultural, and community skills, so we can tailor our policing services to the identified need from a specific community. These community constables provide valuable links to the aboriginal community through their knowledge of their home community, local language, and local culture. They are a role model for the youth. They provide the RCMP with an enhanced culturally and linguistically competent police service for aboriginal communities, allowing for a stronger relationship built on trust to be developed between aboriginal communities and the RCMP.

Aboriginal community constables use their unique skills and experience as members of the community to focus more on proactive and preventative policing measures. Aboriginal community constables have the training and capacity to provide tactical enforcement and investigative support to RCMP constables, if required. This option is being explored for enhanced service delivery within other diverse cultural communities as well.

These programs that I mentioned do not replace RCMP officers. They are an enhancement and a complement to our regular members, permitting those members to focus on core policing functions.

Economics of policing is a complex issue that has cost drivers from areas that aren't necessarily immediately evident, thus making it a difficult issue to summarize in just a few minutes.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Ms. Bergen, please, for seven minutes.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Congratulations, Inspector Bates, soon to be...what will your new title be?

[Inspector Tyler Bates, Director, National Aboriginal Policing and Crime Prevention Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Superintendent.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Congratulations on that, and congratulations, Deputy Commissioner Lang, on your soon to be retirement. I'm sure you'll have lots to keep you busy.

It was a very good presentation. Thank you for that.

I think all of us could take a few minutes to go over it again because there was a lot of information packed into the presentation.

Twenty-three years ago, I lived in Grand Rapids, Manitoba. I lived on the hydro side, but it was a first nations community and I saw first-hand what you talked about. The RCMP members played such an intricate role in the community. In the case at Grand Rapids, it so happened that one of the individuals lived close by and it was a natural fit after he got his training to come back to live in the community.

We hear many times that it is a real struggle for members when they are posted in remote and northern communities. First of all, there aren't many amenities. When I lived there, there wasn't a doctor, or just the general basics we're used to when we live in the southern parts of our provinces.

We've been talking a lot about the economics of policing, and I want to get to that as far as efficiencies are concerned. I think it's good for us to hear the challenges that members face when they have to leave the comfort of the city or being close to their family, to being posted in a very remote area where, again, they don't have amenities. Let's face it: sometimes there are some pretty tough situations that they're dealing with, and there's not really a reprieve from it.

Could you talk about that?

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

I'd be happy to.

One of the key points I wanted to get out today and to share with you is the awareness of the different cost drivers there are for rural policing and policing in Canada's north. When you have your greater discussion about economics of policing, I don't think it's a cookie-cutter approach that can be taken to find the one-size-fits-all solution to the economics of policing. It's very important to understand those special things that you talked about on the rural side, on the far north side, that if someone says that you can come up with a 20% or a 30% cut, how you apply that there.

You're right on. The issues we have are not so much with staffing the north; it's recruiting and finding members willing to go there. As many of you may or may not know, we have limited duration posts all throughout the north—in northern Manitoba, northern Saskatchewan, and in the far north—because we can only keep members there for a certain amount of time for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

In some communities, there are no amenities at all, other than us and a nursing station. We fly members into these communities and fly them out again, when it's time for them to be relieved. The costs associated with getting them there are.... They have northern allowances that are federal government policy, isolated post allowances, and they're entitled to vacation trips out, all these kind of things. The housing and building costs for our infrastructure and detachments in these places are phenomenal. In most of Nunavut, we are barging in members' supplies to everyone. They have no road system there at all, so everything has to be barged up and shipped up to the different communities. You just compound those costs.

I have the numbers here. The average cost for a member in southern Canada is—

[Insp Tyler Bates]

We had a difference of about $121,000 versus $217,000.

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

When you average out the cost, it's about $121,000 to keep a member booted in a seat in southern Canada and then almost double, about $220,000, to do it in the north, with all those different things tacked on that you have to add for that member.

We have quite a bit of interest now for members going north into the far north, into the three territories for rotations. We find that a lot of younger members are going up there, members just starting families, and single members. They are willing to go and spend the time. When they go into these communities, they're on call 24-7, 365 days a year, if they're there that long. There is no rest.

I know there are a couple of former police officers at the table who know that when you're on call, you just don't sleep like you normally sleep. You're always listening for something to happen. Members get tired. They can only do that for so long until they want to get out and do something else.

I'm not sure if you're aware but in Manitoba we have a rotation policy called toques before ties. You have to spend some time in a posting in the north, two or three years, before you can come south and get a detective job. That's why we say it's with a tie, so you can do some major crime work or something else. It's an incentive to get people to go north and do that constant rotation.

We don't need just our young and junior members in the north; we need people with the investigational skills and some experience to go up and mentor these people. We are always trying to strike that balance of finding members who can go up there, who perhaps don't have children, because schooling in some of these communities is not what we would expect, or there's no high school. So there are times in a member's service when he can actually go and spend some time in the north.

I just came back from a week's trip to Yukon. I got out to Dawson City and Faro, and met with a number of the members out there. In some places, we have members who catch the northern fever and they stay there forever, and others who go and do a rotation out. I talked to a number of members up there who just love it. They love the lifestyle. Others go up and do two or three years and then come out. They do it as a stepping stone to work their way back to somewhere else in Canada. Boy, when you talk to the guys who are up there and just love it, the smiles on their faces are amazing. They're loving what they do every day. They're really committed to the community. However, it is expensive.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Just so I understand that, you mentioned the Manitoba program, toques before ties. Are you saying that even though we were talking about the RCMP, the federal and aboriginal policing directorate, there are actually provinces that are tailoring how they use the RCMP in their provinces? Can you explain how the provinces are having their own programs in terms of, for example, toques before ties?

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

I'll explain that a little further.

The commanding officer for Manitoba “D” Division, for example, is required to figure out his resourcing strategy, how he's going to move people around and fill the different vacancies. Everybody has their two- and three-year limited duration postings that they have to move members in and out of, the Shamattawas and the God's Lake Narrows of the world, where we keep members for three years max and we get them out.

The members have volunteered to go into these places, sometimes with a plan, “Okay, I'll go there, but when I come out, I want to go to Dauphin,” or “I'll go there and when I come out, I want to go to Portage,” so they can get into the housing market again, do those kind of things. The commanding officer is doing all that at one time, but he's allowed to move within the various programs.

Some people have asked us, “We used to have special constables and aboriginal community constables years ago, and why are you doing it again?” Because when they got in, they saw the other guys got to move so why don't they get to move? They'll only stay in these communities for so long as well in providing the expertise that we need. It's truly a commanding officer's ability to move all of them around from aboriginal policing to federal policing, to keep members interested and challenged.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll move to Mr. Rafferty, please.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thanks to all three of you for being here today.

I have some experience living in communities with RCMP in the far north, in Yellowknife and Rankin Inlet years ago. There certainly was a lineup at that time for people to make that rotation.

Over the years, say the last decade or so, have you kept officers in isolated communities longer to help save money? Is that one of the strategies you've used to not have so much movement?

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

Yes. In a number of areas we are down on our number of two-year limited duration posts. Most of them are up to three years. I can think of only some that have very few amenities in them that we keep members in for two years or less. We've tried to go to three.

We don't have very many two-member detachments left, so at a three-member detachment, if one person goes every year, you manage to keep some continuity, and it's continuity costs, the whole nine yards.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

You police in a number of provinces where you're side by side with first nations police services.

How would you describe the RCMP's relationship in general with first nations police services?

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

In general it's very good. I can't think of an example that jumps to the top of my head. We have the same infrastructure and training issues. If we're putting on our annual qualification shoots for firearms and stuff, we'll invite whoever's around the area to come and do that. In fact, I can't think in the recent past of battles we've had between organizations.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I wasn't thinking of battles in particular. What I was getting at was using precious RCMP resources to help complement the work first nations police services are doing. In other words, I know in northern Ontario, for example, the OPP gets called on a lot to pick up deficiencies, if that's the right word, in the first nations police services.

Do you find the same thing in your work?

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

Yes. We do go in and handle the sensitive files. If we get called in to handle a murder investigation, we'll go on the ground for a request to do that.

I think where there is a rub sometimes is when we have a stand-alone aboriginal police service providing service in a certain area, and then it somehow folds or diminishes to a point where they're unable to provide the level of service. We have no flexibility because we've lost our infrastructure, the housing and whatever, to go in and do that backup.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Are you suggesting that if first nations police services were resourced to the extent they need to be resourced—and we'll be hearing in the second hour from a first nations police service that is very under-resourced—it would, in fact, save you money and the use of your resources and officers?

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

Yes, it would save us money not having to go in to back them up on short notice. We have to pull people from somewhere else to do that, and that becomes a problem.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I was interested in your increasing cost of infrastructure. How do you decide on the priorities on infrastructure and spending within the RCMP? You're probably always looking for efficiencies somewhere, but that must be a cost that's certainly in the back of managers' minds all the time when it comes to covering the entire country, in effect.

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

I can speak to that a little bit, but it probably would be better to have someone from contract policing services directorate and public safety speak to the new contract.

Our new policing services contract that was signed last year has a whole new section on replacement of the infrastructure. Where the old model was kind of pay as you go, and Canada owns all the buildings except for municipal ones, the new contract has the provinces and territories sitting down and developing a replacement plan right up front, and deciding how much they are going to put into the replacement.

I think our average detachment right now is 30 years old, so we are on the replacement end of a number of these things, and houses.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

So far is that working?