Public Safety Committee on May 2nd, 2013

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

Yes. That is what

Canada Labour Code demands, CPR and first aid—

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

That deals with health and safety, as you said.

You also said that there is no national guideline or policy about the training of auxiliary constables. Is there a committee looking into that? Do human resources administrators want to continue these groups in some places in preference to others?

[Insp Tyler Bates]

There is no committee as such to discuss the auxiliary constables program and recruiting. But there is a committee that discusses ways to attract a variety of people to the RCMP. In those discussions, we consider not only regular members, but also auxiliary constables and other volunteer programs. We focus on the way to attract a diversity of people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

It looks like Mr. Hawn will have the last question for the day.

You have five minutes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen.

I have a couple of questions but we'll run out of time. I want to ask you first, is there something that we have not asked you today? Are there some recommendations you would have for auxiliaries, in any aspect, that you wanted to get out on the table?

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

First and foremost is raising the awareness of the auxiliary program across Canada for all police forces. Every one of us has some sort of program like ours, maybe with a different name such as the cadet program or whatever. Raising that awareness for interest, for people to get in there and try that out, is one thing, but setting a quota or trying to set a number for us becomes difficult.

I want to jump in on that last question because at a three-man detachment, for example, we don't have the time to have an auxiliary ride around with us all the time. We have stuff we need to do by ourselves. We can't have them in the room when we're interviewing somebody. We have investigations that have to be done. We have places we have to go, people we have to see, and we simply can't have that tail tagging along behind us. But they play an important role and we have a need for them to do all kinds of things, and we have to keep them challenged.

If we can't keep a group of auxiliaries challenged, doing certain things and being involved with us front and centre—I'm going through an issue with ours right now on the uniform. They have a certain uniform. We took the yellow stripe away so they wouldn't look like policemen when we're out doing duties, when they had that extra.... We're different.

We're different from England, where no police officer there carries a gun except the armed guys who are in cars, so anybody who has a uniform there and is wearing a bobby hat is the first go-to person. They're not expected to be assaulted or that kind of thing, whereas in Canada we are different, so we have this Canada Labour Code application on us to show a difference.

We're putting the stripe back on their pants for ceremonial purposes, so they will look like us in ceremonies with blue serge. They don't get red ones, but this is getting over that hump of what's the difference between us. They are very proud. Our auxiliaries are very proud of serving with us, and if the committee can make any recommendation in that regard to enhance that need, that use, the benefit of their being in our program—

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Yes, that's fine.

Thank you. I'm glad you touched on recruiting because I wanted to bring that up as well. With respect to going out and trying to get quotas of this or that, it's really self-recruiting, is it not? People self-recruit into that program more than anything else.

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

But we are going out and actively targeting people—

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You're making people aware that this is available.

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

—making people aware, and our focus is on the recruiting we have to do to get members in to replace somebody, off the street. The sideline recruiting that we do in the auxiliary program happens after we talk to that person and we get them in the door. One of the benefits—and I forget who asked the question—is that applicants are given extra points on their application in any police force for previous police experience.

Auxiliary police experience counts as previous police experience, but that same young person who wanted to be a police officer can also work at Guardian Security, or the armoured—

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

G4S Secure—

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

Yes, in any of those places, and also get the same sort of experience points. In those places, where do you go? You can be a security guard in a mall and we can really test, when we do our interviews and stuff in our background checks and so on, whether that person abused use of force.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

A quick question.

I'm sorry, but I want to ask you this one. Obviously, if an RCMP constable gets hurt on the job and so on, there is all the protection and so on. What happens with auxiliaries if they get hurt in the performance of their duties?

[Insp Tyler Bates]

There's a variety of manners in which they are insured, and that's a provincial consideration. In some provinces they're covered under the workers' compensation board for their particular province. In other provinces there is specific insurance that the province has retained for them. It is a consideration and it is something that, with regard to the assignment of functions and duties, we need to be mindful of in terms of what provisions are available to them for those types of circumstances.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

There is no provision in the RCMP for that kind of—

[Insp Tyler Bates]

No, there is no overarching provision.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Should there be? I know it's going to be a personal opinion but—

[D/Commr Doug Lang]

We'll have to come back with an answer to that question, because we fight that same issue with search and rescue volunteers. When we ask them to come to do a job for us or assist us on a search and rescue, how are they covered? I know there is insurance on the search and rescue side. I simply don't have that answer in my pocket for the auxiliaries on what would happen.

I don't believe there is any coverage with the RCMP, superannuation, etc., but there is something.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I think that's a good question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hawn.

Thank you, Commissioner Lang and Inspector Bates. We appreciate your being here again today. It's been very educational on the part of the RCMP on part of the policing that I haven't had a lot of knowledge about, the auxiliary end and the volunteer end. We appreciate your being here today.

We're going to suspend, committee, then we're going in camera to discuss committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]