Public Safety Committee on June 7th, 2018

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Right. What I'm getting at is this. A law-abiding gun owner will “trigger-lock” their firearm, put it in a locked case, and they will transport it out of sight, in all circumstances unless it's impossible to do so, generally in a trunk or something thereabouts.

This isn't just thugs running around transporting their firearms, as Mr. Holland had suggested in the House. There are clear rules. Those rules apply and are followed by law-abiding gun owners.

I'm curious to know what we hope to accomplish. I go back to you, Mr. Koops, on this. What did we hope to accomplish by restricting the ATTs? I'm still unclear. We had no identifiable issues with individuals who are legally transporting their firearms. You are putting more restrictions on them now under Bill C-71.

If this bill, which the minister told us was ultimately about public safety.... You said it limits their ability to travel from point A to point B; they don't travel around with them. Quite honestly I know thousands and thousands of lawful firearms owners who transport their firearms legally and they don't travel around indiscriminately. I'm at a loss to know why the current legislation has gone to such lengths to try to remove ATTs because there's no evidence to support that this will actually improve public safety.

[Randall Koops]

When he was before you he talked about the intent as being preserving, for firearms owners, the automatic ATT for the vast majority of reasons for which they would transport their firearms: to bring them home, and bring them to and from the range, for those that are authorized to go to the range.

Of all the many purposes for which one can transport a firearm, the other types of activities are less frequent and the minister has proposed, through Bill C-71, that some of those activities no longer be automatic, for example going to the border with a firearm. That is not as frequent an occurrence for most firearms owners as either taking the firearm home or taking the firearm to the range.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Fair enough. I know a scenario that has happened. Under the current legislation I'm allowed to take a firearm from my home to a shooting range. My firearm breaks down at that range. Now I can't go from the range to a gunsmith to repair it, unless I first take it back home, then get permission to transport it to a gunsmith.

[A voice]

If it doesn't work, it's not a gun.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

It might work, it might not work, and of course, having a firearm in proper working order is a safety issue for the operator, obviously.

I'm wondering from that perspective whether that has been an oversight.

[Randall Koops]

Could we have just a moment, Mr. Chair? Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay, Mr. Koops.

[Randall Koops]

I think in response to the question, sir, we will just observe that it is possible that someone can contact the Canadian firearms program from the range and request that an ATT be issued to them to transport the firearm to the gunsmith. As we indicated previously, the Canadian firearms program makes authorizations to transport available in PDF format that can be issued on the spot and carried on one's telephone.

Also, my colleague points out that most trips to the gunsmith are of a slightly less impromptu nature and generally, for a slightly longer period of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Go ahead, Mr. O'Reilly.

[Rob O'Reilly]

The only thing I would add is that part of the implementation strategy for the Canadian firearms program, in relation to this legislation, will be the creation of an online portal, which will allow individuals in real time to make application for authorizations to transport. Assuming that there are no reasons for which that could not be accomplished, the individual should be able to almost immediately receive that authorization to transport electronically, via their phone. In your scenario, then they would be able to take the firearm from the range directly to the gunsmith.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Would that be during regular business hours?

[Rob O'Reilly]

That's correct. Right now, we will be operating our call centre staff— the individuals who would issue authorizations to transport—nationally, from 9 a.m. until 7 p.m., Monday to Friday, I believe.

Part of our implementation strategy for C-71 will be the creation of an online portal, which will allow individuals to electronically make application for an authorization to transport.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

What I've had gun owners tell me—and what you've confirmed for me, basically—is that, by changing the ATT rules, we're suggesting that there's a public safety risk in taking my firearm to a gun shop or a repair shop. If there were not a public safety risk, we wouldn't be here today, unless there's some other motivation.

There's no evidence to support that suggestion at all—zero. No witness at the committee and no evidence I've ever read would suggest that there is a reason because this does not pose a public safety risk. If it doesn't pose a public safety risk—and C-71 is supposed to be all about public safety—why are we doing this?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's not a question officials are ready to answer. You should be asking your colleagues over here.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

They're not interested in answering.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Damoff is interested, though.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

She's very interested. I know.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Are you finished questioning?

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'm just curious to know that. They can answer that if they want, but I guess the answer is evident, since they don't even support their own member's amendment. I will leave it at that, Mr. Chair, for this moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Chair, actually, I don't need to.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Motz, do you wish to ask further questions?

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'm good for now.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay.

Seeing no further questions, those in favour of LIB-2?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like us to hold a recorded vote so that the citizens of Hastings—Lennox and Addington can see that the Conservatives support them.

Thank you.