Evidence of meeting #127 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offenders.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
Do you know how many incidents involving a child there have been in the history of the CSC?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I do not have that information today.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
No cases come to mind. To your knowledge, at least, there have been no specific cases of an incident related to a child being present at a healing lodge.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No cases where there was an incident.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
Am I to understand that the quality of the mentoring, treatment and follow-up programs offered to participating persons leads you to believe that there are no unnecessary risks or irresponsible attitudes, and that this is conducive to the rehabilitation and ultimately reintegration of those persons into society?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
You are asking whether our programs...
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
Given the quality of your programs or the way the programs are built, I guess, if we didn't have any incidents so far, it's just because of lack of opportunities, because the way you supervise and accompany those persons shows the quality of the rehabilitation process.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes, and obviously in terms of the programs we offer, that's part of it as well. We have programs that we offer, a family violence program, so in our healing lodges, no, I don't know of any incidents that have occurred.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
That said, if children are present, they are under the supervision of their parent or guardian.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
Perfect, thank you.
We have heard comments recently from persons who have obviously never set foot in your establishments, who compared your establishments to condominiums.
Do you think that is the case?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No, I would not make that comparison. The inmates in our establishments certainly do not have the freedom that people in the community enjoy. They have to follow rules and routines. They are told when they can do certain things, where they can be, and so forth. So the answer is no.
Liberal
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you very much.
How long is it feasible to keep someone in a maximum security prison without moving them into a different facility? Could we keep them there for 25 years, and what would be the consequences for them—and for society—once we released them?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
For society, yes, absolutely. For maximum security institutions, there are certain criteria. If you have an offender for whom institutional adjustment is a problem, or if the offender is a high escape risk or a high public safety risk, they might start their sentence at maximum security.
Obviously, we expect the offenders to participate in their correctional plan, meet the objectives set out in that plan, and participate in the programming that's offered. If they do, many of our offenders actually benefit from a security reclassification and may be moved gradually to medium security. Some of them actually make it to minimum security. There are offenders, however, who because of their behaviour may stay in maximum security longer.
We believe in gradual, structured supervision and for the offender to move from maximum to medium to minimum and establish—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Madam Kelly, I'm trying to run a tight clock here. Otherwise, everybody gets upset.
September 27th, 2018 / 4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you.
Congratulations, Commissioner, on your posting. It's good to have you here today.
The government seems really concerned with the benefits afforded to criminals; I'm concerned about public safety. Within public safety are the correctional officers, who are at risk because of some of our government policies that you've been asked to implement. For example, in May the current Liberal government announced a needle exchange program in prisons, contrary to the current Drug-Free Prisons Act.
I'm curious to know about this. Did Public Safety Canada, Health Canada or any other department discuss the plan with you or your team, or with the union, or with the management of these facilities prior to that decision—yes or no?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
The prison needle exchange is a CSC initiative. Actually, it's in keeping with the broader Government of Canada harm reduction strategy. Before we implemented it, we did speak to our union partners.
Actually, at this point it's a very slow implementation. It's only at two sites, at Atlantic and Grand Valley institutions. It's phased-in implementation. I have said to all the unions that I'm more than prepared to sit down and discuss it.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay, well, just so you're aware, Commissioner, I've heard from them, and they tell a different story. They're quite concerned that, again, the front-line correctional officers have the potential to be impacted by a weapon being in the hands of a violent offender and an addict. They're concerned about that. I'm concerned that this decision will have a risk and a negative impact on front-line officers, so I would certainly encourage you.... The story I'm hearing from them directly is different from what I'm hearing from you. There is obviously a disconnect.
One of the concerns I have also is that you've rolled this out slowly, you say, and there are only two institutions in which this needle program is implemented. Surprisingly, or interestingly, one of those institutions had its first heroin overdose in 15 years. I'm wondering how you reconcile that with the concept that prisons are supposed to be places where prisoners remain drug-free. I can tell you story after story of prisoners I locked up personally who said, “Thank you. I got clean in jail. If it weren't for jail, I'd be dead.”
This is not good for our inmates. I'm just curious to know how you can reconcile that with the Drug-Free Prisons Act.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Certainly for us, drugs are an issue. We don't want drugs in our institution. The fact is that there are drugs.
The prison needle exchange program is a harm reduction measure. As you know, in CSC we've been providing condoms, dental dams, and bleach for a number of years.
With regard to the prison needle exchange, I want to mention that in terms of safely managing needles, we have had success with the threat risk assessment model, which is the model we use for EpiPens and insulin needles that we have right now in our institutions.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Well, that's fair, but if you are concerned about the safety of prisoners—which you need to be, and that's your mandate, and I respect that—we also need the same respect and care and concern for correctional officers in there who run a risk.
To shift, according to an Order Paper question that was tabled by Minister Goodale on April 30, in the time since this current government was elected, 48 first degree murderers have been out on unescorted temporary absences and 204 second degree murderers have been out on unescorted absences. There was also a temporary absence that lasted 303 days. In my business before, a 303-day absence was AWOL.
I don't understand how these things can go on. Can you explain to Canadians how allowing, in this case, hundreds of murderers out on our streets unescorted is keeping public safety in check? How is that possible?