Public Safety Committee on April 29th, 2019

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a technical question. I hope that we will be able to understand each other, given the situation with the interpretation.

When it comes to determining whether people are eligible for the removal of the waiting period and the fees, does the bill distinguish between possession of 30 grams or less of cannabis or its equivalent, which is now legal, and possession of more than 30 grams in a public place, which remains illegal?

[Angela Connidis]

We debated that. We do not include it because personal possession has no limit. There was no distinction between public and personal in the previous law, so we don't have a distinction and we don't have a 30-gram limit.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Possessing more than 30 grams of cannabis in a public place remains illegal. So why would someone accused of that previously have the right to get a pardon, if it remains illegal today?

[Angela Connidis]

In the past it wouldn't have been relevant whether it was public or private possession, so they wouldn't have been able to.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

So it is possible for a pardon to be given to someone who has done something that remains illegal today.

[Angela Connidis]

Now you have a very clear law and if they are charged with that, that crime will stay.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Okay.

We have talked about costs with the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. According to the information we have on our side, about 500,000 Canadians have been charged with simple possession of cannabis. The minister said that he expects 10,000 of them to apply for a pardon.

How do you explain the fact that only 10,000 people out of the 500,000 might apply for a pardon?

[Angela Connidis]

As we've said, it's very difficult to know who has possession for cannabis offences, so we can't just go into a database and say this is how many offences there are. We've extrapolated from statistics collected by the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, and their figure is upwards of 250,000 convictions for the simple possession of cannabis. That is a starting point. The number of people expected to apply is much lower for reasons including that they've passed away—because some of these convictions date back a long time—they've already received a pardon or they have other criminal records on their record.

Let's remember you can only get that pardon if your only offence is for possession of cannabis. While you may have that offence, if you have others on your record, you would not be eligible. It's not an exact science but we've extrapolated from the figure of 250,000 and estimate 10,000.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Okay.

I will give the rest of my time to Mr. Motz.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have three minutes.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

You estimated 250,000. What is with the other 250,000 from the 500,000 estimation? Where are they?

[Angela Connidis]

I'm not sure where the 500,000 came from. The figures we have used are 250,000.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Just as a point of clarification, it's 10,000 out of 250,000. It's not 10,000 out of 500,000. Is that correct?

[Angela Connidis]

That's correct.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Based on the numbers that you've come up with—and you've committed to providing a cost analysis for this committee on that—$250 per application is what you're estimating over time.

[Angela Connidis]

We're still before committee and we don't have the final bill, so I can't actually say right now what the cost will be.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'm just going to start into my questions now for the next round.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have two minutes and 15 seconds.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Okay. I'm going to wait for the next round then.

My colleague, Mr. de Burgh Graham, on the cybercrime side of things, is always technical. I want to ask a very technical question specific to a type of substance. I want to know whether that still qualifies now because of the old NCA, CDSA and the new act that was changed in the fall.

In The Globe and Mail, a commonly cited statistic is that 500,000 people in Canada have a conviction for cannabis possession. A government spokesperson was also quoted in the media and estimated that 10,000 people will apply for the record suspension, as you say. That's where the 500,000 number comes from.

[Angela Connidis]

As I said, we drew our number from the Public Prosecution Service of Canada and the number of convictions they have.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

All right.

That's all for now, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We will look forward to your questions in the next round, Mr. Motz.

Mr. Dubé, you have seven minutes.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for sticking with us for this second hour.

For Bill C-66, are confirmations provided to individuals who apply through the process that was created in that legislation, confirmations that their records have been expunged?

[Angela Connidis]

I'll have to turn to Ian and Brigitte.