Public Safety Committee on June 3rd, 2019

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

That's a very important question, Mr. Spengemann, and there are several answers to that.

Thank you for flagging the good work of the Canada community outreach centre within my department. Their whole objective is to coordinate and support activities at the community level across the country, some run by municipalities, some run by provincial governments, some run by academic organizations, some run by police services that reach out to the community to counter that insidious process of radicalization to violence.

Some of their work is purely research; other is program delivery; other is assisting groups that provide the countervailing messages to people who are on a negative trajectory towards extremism and violence. The Canada centre has been up and running now for two and a half years, and it has done some very important work.

The specific program I think you're referring to is a different one. It's the security infrastructure program which, when we started in government three and a half years ago, was funded at the rate, I believe, of about $1 million a year. It was a good initiative but fairly limited in its scope. We have quadrupled the funds, so it's now up to $4 million a year. We've expanded the criteria for what this program can, in fact, support.

One of the recent changes, for example, is to allow some of the funding from the security infrastructure program to be used for training in schools or in places of worship or community centres where that training can actually assist with knowing what to do if there is an incident. It's like a fire drill in school. How do you react, say, to an active shooter or to an incident of violence?

It was found, in the case of the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh last fall, that training in advance made a real difference in that situation. There were people on the scene who knew, because they had been properly trained, exactly how to react to an active shooter situation. It's the considered opinion of people in that synagogue that the training made a material difference in saving lives.

We have adjusted the terms of the security infrastructure program to allow for that to be part of what the program can pay for, in addition to closed-circuit television, better doors, barriers and other protective features within the design of a building, and the renovation of the building itself to make it as effective as it can be to keep people safe.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you for that.

Let me shift gears and take you to the cyber domain. I think there is $9.2 million going towards protecting the rights and freedoms of Canadians. One concern that's raised is about cyber-bullying, particularly with respect to LGBTQ2+ youth and people but also for other vulnerable communities.

Can you tell the committee what the department is doing with respect to online bullying specifically?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

This is an initiative that involves not only my department but other departments within the Government of Canada as well. The whole purpose is to first of all raise the level of awareness about some of the insidious activity that's going on online. It might be bullying. It might be child sexual exploitation. Often one leads to the other. It might be human trafficking. It might be violent extremism. In another cadre, it could be attacks on our democratic institutions. There is a whole range of social harms perpetrated on the Internet. Our objective is to raise the level of public awareness so that people understand better and have a higher level of digital literacy in terms of what they're being subjected to online and are able to distinguish between what is legitimate activity and what is not.

As I said earlier, we've also created new cyber response systems—one within the Communications Security Establishment, another within the RCMP—making it, in terms of the police unit, more accessible to the public with a one-window reporting mechanism. People know where they can go to report cybercrime and incidents on the Internet that need to be drawn to the attention of public officials.

This is such an all-pervasive problem. It is, quite literally, in our hands every minute. We need to engage all Canadians in this effort to understand their vulnerabilities online, and then make the response mechanisms at all levels of government readily available. That's what we're trying to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Spengemann—

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

To answer one final little point, Mr. Chair, the critical infrastructure systems that I was referring to earlier are finance, telecommunications, energy and transport.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you for that.

I'm sure Mr. Motz appreciated that.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I did. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have five minutes, Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and team, for being here.

Minister, there have been lots of rumours floating around recently about your government considering a ban on certain types of firearms, maybe as early as this week. I'll ask you a very simple, clear question: Are you considering an order in council to ban certain firearms, yes or no?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

The Prime Minister—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Yes or no.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

—invited Minister Blair to examine that question, and he will be reporting his recommendations very shortly. No final decision has been taken at this stage. He'll be able to give you an accurate description of where he is in his deliberations when he appears.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Minister, I know that generally your party tends to treat law-abiding Canadian firearms owners as second-class citizens—

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

No, that's not true.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

—but I want to be clear that the firearm industry in Canada does hundreds of millions of dollars annually in sales and is responsible for thousands upon thousands of jobs. There are real-world consequences to attempts to shore up your left flank for an election year, with precious little in the way of accomplishments so far in your government.

Again, yes or no, do you have plans to ban firearms in this country?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Motz, you know very well that this is a specific policy area that the Prime Minister has asked Minister Blair to examine and report upon. He has conducted extensive consultations, probably the largest in Canadian history. He will make his recommendations known very shortly.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

All right. So we're still waiting.

I'll go to my other question. We know that the majority of firearms-related homicides in this country are not by those who have a valid firearms licence. In the last 15 years or so, that percentage has been extremely low. Targeting a population that is law-abiding to begin with, with Bill C-71, rather than going after the gangs and guns issue that we have in this country.... Your government has loosened penalties for gangs and gang affiliation and made things more difficult for those who are already law-abiding gun owners. How do you reconcile that?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Well, we have invested $327 million in a strategy directly aimed at guns and gangs. Of that total, $214 million is going to provinces and communities to support their local anti-gang strategies. There's about $50 million that's going to CBSA to assist in the interdiction of illegal guns coming across the border, and there's about $35 million going to the RCMP to support their efforts at combatting illegal gun trafficking.

There is a whole collection of—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

In 2017, you promised $500 million to policing to combat gangs and guns, and then it was $327 million. I wonder how much of that money has actually been given out to provinces to deal with their gang and gun issues.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

The agreements with the provinces are in the process of being concluded.

In my own province of Saskatchewan, the agreement has been concluded, and announced by me and the provincial minister together. The announcements have been made in several provinces and territories across the country. The process is rolling forward.

The commitment that we made was to get to the level of $100 million per year ongoing, and we will meet that target. The $327 million that I referred to is the beginning of that commitment, to help all levels of government be as effective as they possibly can be in dealing with the issue of illegal guns and gangs. You can probably add a third component in that, because it's usually present, and that is drugs.

Guns, gangs and drugs are what this money is to be used for, coupled with the changes in the law that improve background checks, require licence verification and standardize best practices in record-keeping.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have a little less than a minute.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Just so you know, we won't get into the Bill C-71 debate, because that's not exactly what's going to happen.

Your colleague, Mr. Blair, said there is no reason for anyone to own what in reality is a modern hunting rifle, because they're purpose built to harm people. That statement isn't only offensive, but it is incredibly misinformed, misguided and deliberately misleads Canadians.

I wonder what your response would be, sir, to the men and women on our Canadian Olympic shooting team, for example, who are representing Canada in Tokyo, when they hear of such a statement by a minister of this government.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You're going to have to save that answer.

Your time has expired, Mr. Motz. I'm sure you'll have an opportunity to ask Mr. Blair directly what he means by his own comment.

Next is Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today, and for all the other occasions you've been before this committee. Your answers are always enlightening.

You mentioned in your statement something about funding going toward enforcement measures for unscrupulous immigration consultants. I know that it's not just from your department, but from Citizenship and Immigration as well.

Can you give me a bit more information as to what that amount is and how enforcement measures will be enacted?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Let me ask Mr. Ossowski to provide some detail on that.