Evidence of meeting #171 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was protection.
A video is available from Parliament.
Senior Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer, Desjardins Group
If they have not received a letter, they are not affected.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
On June 14, we received information from the Laval police force. That information enabled our computer investigative teams to provide us with the figures of 2.7 million individuals and 173,000 businesses. We sent letters to those people.
Despite everything, we are hearing people's concerns. That is why, this morning, we decided to speed up the launch of this protection program for all members, be they affected or not.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
That protection is a good thing, but in some of the towns in my riding, Laurentides—Labelle, a number of people don't have Internet access or a cellphone. They are fewer than when I first took office, but there are still some. A number of them have even lost their Desjardins branch. What can those people do?
I have had an account with Equifax for several years. When something changes, I receive an email, but I must go on the website to try to figure out what it is, as it is not clear at all. So for those with an Internet connection, the Equifax-provided information is unclear, and those without a connection have nothing at all.
You talked a bit about this, but could you elaborate further?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
There are two things to consider. First, it is urgent to connect Canadians across the country to the Internet if we want to enter the 21st century. On our end, as some of our members are not connected to the Internet—sometimes by choice, sometimes because they have no access to it—we have proposed an additional solution in partnership with Equifax. Mr. Berthiaume can explain that.
Senior Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer, Desjardins Group
People who don't go online and don't necessarily have an email address must still be reached. Therefore, we have set up a call centre so they can reach us by telephone. We will undertake to sign them up for the Equifax services.
We have implemented an innovative solution with Equifax, which will enrol them, take care of monitoring and alerts, and then send us the results. At that point, we will contact those without Internet or email access. That is what we implemented today.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
So Equifax, and not Desjardins, will take care of the technical aspect.
Senior Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer, Desjardins Group
Yes. Currently, Equifax has the ability to handle alerts. As we were saying earlier, Equifax holds 70% of the Canadian market when it comes to credit bureaus and detection and alert systems. So those are the services we use for this aspect.
Once again, we liaise for people who have more difficulty accessing the Internet or don't have an email address. We reassure people and, in case of alert, we contact them.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Fine.
In your statement, you talked about changing our digital identity system. What examples would you like us to follow?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
Far be it from me to give you the perfect example that should be followed, because there will always be gaps in the perfect solutions that we think we have found. There will always be dishonest people who will try to get around these solutions. However, countries such as Estonia, India and even some European countries have put in place measures regarding unique identifiers or, at the very least, measures to ensure that government-issued cards, whether drivers' licences or health insurance cards, do not become ways of identifying people. The objective of these countries was to restore the primary role of these cards, which have become identification documents over time. Canada should draw inspiration from these countries.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Very well.
I have one last question. What did the 2.9 million Desjardins clients who were affected have in common? Do we know why they were affected and not the others?
Senior Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer, Desjardins Group
On this subject, we have nothing conclusive. We relied on the data provided to us by the police services. We don't have conclusive data on why someone was on the list or not. We don't have that information.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Mr. Cormier, I would just like to reiterate what my colleague said. The fundamental objective of today's meeting, for us Conservatives, is to determine what the government, its agencies and institutions could do to help you and, in turn, to help Desjardins members, which is the most important thing. They are Canadian and Quebec citizens.
As you know, I have contacted the three directors of the Desjardins branches in my riding to express my support.
Has Canada's Department of Employment and Social Development contacted you to obtain the list of the 2.9 million citizens? This is a very important question.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
The department is in contact with us and collaborates with us. We have been talking directly with its representatives for more than two weeks now, whether it is about social insurance numbers or the situation Desjardins is in.
I do not believe that the information was requested, at least not on an operational level. I don't have that information. I don't know if Mr. Brun or Mr. Berthiaume know more, but I don't think so.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
When you have the answer, could you give it to the analysts or the clerk? It would be important for us to know that. If the request has been made, could you provide a list of these Canadians? We are trying to find out what the government can do, but first it should know who it is talking about. So would you be able to send this list to the Canadian government? Unfortunately, it would still involve sending data, but the recipient would be the government.
Senior Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer, Desjardins Group
We will have to see if this is possible. From a legal point of view, I am not sure.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Next, I would like to know if a member of the current cabinet has contacted you since June 20.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
When you talk about the current cabinet, you are talking about the cabinet....
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I am talking about the federal cabinet. So it would be a minister.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
Yes, that's right. I had a discussion with Minister Morneau on the situation. He offered me his support to see how the federal government could support Desjardins in this situation.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Fine.
In your introduction, you mentioned very humbly and respectfully that you had some questions. Personally, I would have liked to know your answers as an expert in your field. I don't remember your first question very well, but it was still interesting. You were wondering if Canada had an adequate system for social insurance numbers, for example. I would like to know your perspective on this.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
The first question was whether Canada is well equipped to manage technological development, which is full of promise, but also involves new risks.
Do we need to adapt our identification systems?
Conservative
President and Chief Executive Officer, Desjardins Group
My two answers are simple: I think the status quo is not an option. The status quo in Canada today is not sufficient in the digital age, in the upcoming 5G era, and in the era of reflection about the world of financial services, including open financial services. On these two issues, I think we should not be satisfied with the status quo.
That is why we humbly propose the creation of a committee composed of several stakeholders, including citizens, governments, businesses—not just financial institutions, but companies that process data—to reflect on these issues and see if, using examples from other countries around the world, we can continue to be leaders.
As I mentioned in the beginning, I think that in artificial intelligence, Canada is taking an important leadership position in the world. At the same time, we must have the same ambition with regard to personal information and data protection. My answer revolves around these points.
