Evidence of meeting #32 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was you're.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I call the meeting back to order.
We have one more person who has asked to speak, Selene Granton.
I will, however, relinquish the chair to Mr. Miller to carry on this part of the meeting.
I will sit on that side.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. That was a little bit of a surprise.
Please go ahead, Ms. Granton, for three to four minutes.
6:45 p.m.
Selene Granton As an Individual
Thank you.
I [Inaudible--Editor] talking in public and sometimes it's hard to get my ideas across. At any rate, from what I can gather, it just seems that bills such as Bill C-51, the increase in national security, and other events like that are more related to some of what we've seen happening in the world. I'm just curious to know what the government is doing to treat the roots of the problem, to be proactive rather than just reactive in their actions.
I was born and raised in Mexico. I know that sometimes when the government increases security, the power can get a little out of hand. Then people start rebelling more. It just creates this vicious cycle that keeps getting worse and worse.
I am curious to know what the government is planning to do to address these root causes. Are they planning to change the schooling system so that people can become better Canadians, where they know what is good and bad, and can become better citizens in the future?
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
At the risk of engaging in debate, I would just turn your attention to one of the initiatives being discussed in the broader context of this public consultation, namely, the creation of an office of community outreach and counter-radicalization, where I think some of the underlying issues that do tend to give rise to radicalization or violence would be addressed.
Again, there are places where you can educate and inform yourself about those specific initiatives, but that's one thing that this committee is charged with looking at.
6:45 p.m.
As an Individual
A little bit.
You said that there are places where I can go to educate myself. Oftentimes we don't know where to go to educate ourselves. I work for a non-profit, and we deal with educating people on how to break from poverty [Inaudible—Editor] because they don't even know where to go in the first place to educate themselves.
I'm hoping the initiative is more than just expecting that people will say, “Hey, I'm going to go educate myself”, especially [Inaudible—Editor].
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Mr. Chair, perhaps you'll permit just a little bit of latitude, since there does seem to be a pretty direct request for some additional information.
I don't want to leave you with the impression that we're not interested in having a discussion about this. It's just that we're trying to hear more about points of view and perspectives on where the public is with national security and Bill C-51. But it's not restricted to those two subjects. For example, we heard evidence earlier today from a witness who has studied a lot about counter-radicalization. The evidence he offered the committee was that we should be looking at underlying social issues, that we should be looking at how we can further engage our youth and women in understanding where threats to radicalization stem from. Those are two big categories within the broader community, or public, that have not been fully empowered.
I asked him about that and for any strategies he might offer this committee in our study and consultation about how we can be more effective in pursuing those strategies. One suggestion he offered was to work with community leaders, and how we need to directly engage them so that we can build trust and goodwill, so that we can understand what communities' perspectives are as we try to address radicalization and try to keep our communities safe, but also respect people's individual cultures and their values and their rights under the charter.
I think you will be very interested to read what we've heard in the way of the testimony and our study. In the meantime, you can go online and you can see the evidence probably within the next 48 hours. I would encourage you to read some of what we heard today and yesterday.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
I'd like to carry on with the conversation having to do with getting information from the general public and some of the witnesses that have come forward. We saw another professor who said that radicalization is a very small component of the overall issue. We have one witness saying one thing and the other saying something else. I would suggest that we will never get anywhere unless we deal with the root causes, the root causes of everything that is occurring. Whether it's violence against women, violence against boys, or radicalization, we have to get at the root causes. That's the only way these cycles will be broken. It's going to take a community, and it's going to take all three levels of government to come together and really work together.
One government, or one level of government, will never solve all of these issues in anyone's lifetime. It's incumbent upon all of us. Sitting here for the last couple of days, I've come to feel that as these discussions continue, we will get to a point where we have all the engagement we need. I hope this will occur, because, as I said, unless we start dealing with the root causes of these matters, nothing is going to change. It takes each and every one of us exercising a sense of our responsibility as citizens of this country to do that.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Okay, thank you.
Ms. Granton, may I ask how long you've been in Canada?
6:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Twelve years, but my dad was Canadian, so all the family's here. I spent holidays here when I was growing up.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Very good. Well, welcome to Canada, anyway.
Is there anyone else in the room who hasn't had a chance to speak and would like to? Is there anyone who has spoken and has a point they wanted to raise and forgot, which we can all do?
Tavis.
6:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I have a friend here in Calgary, and her son—I believe he was 15 or 16 at the time—was sent to prison in Edmonton because he had been radicalized by ISIS. There was concern that he was going to leave the country. The mother is white and non-Muslim, and he had been radicalized. She reached out to the RCMP, and as part of the process, the RCMP asked her about her political views and about her being a single mother. Some things went in the wrong direction.
The RCMP, rather than helping her with this issue and helping to de-escalate the situation, instead arrested her son. What this said to anybody bringing this forward in the future was that if you bring up the idea that your own child is being radicalized, that child will go to prison. He spent a year in prison and was only recently released. Thank heavens the Liberals are in power now. I'm trying not to be partisan here, but under the previous regime—
6:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Right. The point is, under the previous government, I think that he would have gone to trial and the charges wouldn't have been dropped.
Under Bill C-51 I think we go in the direction of...as legal experts have pointed out, Bill C-51 actually prevents people from coming forward; it criminalizes the ability to come forward. So that's a thought.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
6:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Do we know, officially, how much is being spent on these types of programs, like CSIS' disruption programs? Is this all covert and secret? If so, why is it secret from the public?
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Miller
I don't know that figure offhand. Obviously, there will be a budget for CSIS, the same as there's a budget for the RCMP or any other security agency. I don't know whether it's totally public with a breakdown. I can't honestly answer that, but anybody with a computer...
Mr. Chair.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I'm just going to say that if you wanted to suggest that this committee look at the cost of the implementation of that act, we can't guarantee it's going to get done. It's the kind of thing where instead of asking or wondering, you could say, “I'm suggesting that“, and then that goes into our testimony, and we look at that. I think I've heard you say you would like to know that information. You probably think the committee should know that.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Miller
That's a good point, Mr. Oliphant, and I think it would be good if you would send that in as well. We heard it here today, but send it in writing, and it will get passed on by the committee.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Larry Miller
With that, I want to thank all of you. You were a small crowd, but I think from a participant level, very good. Some of you said that you didn't come very well prepared, but it didn't appear like that up here, as Mr. Oliphant said earlier. Thank you again for participating.
With that, we're going to adjourn the meeting.