Public Safety Committee on March 8th, 2016

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

With regard to the no-fly list, Mr. Minister, you were recently quoted in the papers as expressing some frustration on the part of certain children who continue to be flagged by the no-fly list, erroneously, it would appear. Can you tell this committee what steps your department is taking to ensure this doesn't happen in the future, or at least that we are continuing to reduce the likelihood of children being erroneously flagged by the no-fly list?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

The point is clearly this. Those children who have been erroneously caught up in the no-fly process are not on the no-fly list. The problem is that there are some adults who have exactly the same names who are on the no-fly list, and it's the confusion between the two that is causing the problem.

When the system was designed a few years ago, it did not include an interactive, internal database that would allow false positives to be easily flagged and then resolved. In fact, it relied on physical identification at the gate, and within 5, 10, 15 minutes, the problems could be resolved. But that still presents an awkward situation at the gate, so we have to find a way to improve the database and the computer system. There may be some lessons that we can learn here from the American side of the operation, because they do have an interactive system that resolves false positives faster than we do.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

May I just use the few seconds remaining to ask whether or not you've contemplated some sort of appeals process so that there is transparency for those individuals who have been erroneously flagged?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Yes, and that was a specific commitment in our platform.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. O'Toole.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, a number of my colleagues have been asking about the committee of parliamentarians for security intelligence review. We've been affectionately calling it the McGuinty committee, for lack of any other description.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Your affection is overflowing, Mr. O'Toole.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Well, you see that pragmatically last week after consultations with the NDP, and the lack of consultations from the government, I sent you a letter with recommendations. Mr. Mendicino clearly read it because several of his questions to you were contained in my letter.

You were saying the exact methodology is to be resolved, and you need this to be credible. You're clearly still putting parameters on it. Why appoint a chair before even the parameters are done?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Well, we're reaching out to have a very inclusive process, and Mr. O'Toole, I would, quite frankly, apologize to members of Parliament around the table here for not being able to move as quickly on this as I would have liked to. I've said on other occasions that this department is like riding a fire hose, and trying to get up to speed on every issue is a big challenge, but we're getting there.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Certainly.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I welcomed your letter, as I did Monsieur Mulcair's letter. It is helpful input into the process. Mr. LeBlanc and I will be meeting shortly with members of the Senate to get their input. We will have a more fulsome discussion of this.

The suggestions that you and others have made about how to structure this committee, and what power and authority it needs to have, are helpful input. We will weigh all of that very carefully.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I appreciate those comments. I know MP Rankin and I will wait by our phones for the call.

I have one final question on this subject. You talked about the official secrets that will be involved, the credibility. Mr. Mendicino mentioned this as well.

The Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament in the U.K. has had some success with discretion over two decades. One of the points I made was that members should have some experience in security, national defence, previous experience chairing a committee, or ministerial experience, to ensure that the quality and effectiveness of the committee is safeguarded. Is that your plan?

There has been some speculation that you've already identified government members for the committee. Can you confirm whether or not that's true?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

The final decisions have not been taken, Mr. O'Toole.

The kinds of qualifications that you referred to in your letter will certainly be helpful. They may not be the only ones, but I take your point that this committee needs to have the horsepower to do a good job. Otherwise, why have it? It's not there to be window dressing. It's not there to be a buffer or a deflection. It's there to give Canadians the assurance of two things; namely, that the agencies are doing what they need to do to keep Canadians safe, and that the values, rights, and freedoms of Canadians are properly respected. I want this to be a very high-calibre group of parliamentarians who will be able to give Canadians that assurance.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Well, certainly the Conservative Party wants this to be done right. We're prepared to work with the government, particularly to ensure the safety of the operations conducted by our intelligence agencies and their personnel.

My final question relates to the court decision in the case of Mounted Police Association of Ontario v. Canada. We spoke in the House on this subject when the government sought an extension of the court period for that case. I understand that the government will be bringing forward legislation very shortly on the new designated bargaining model, using guidance from the court to ensure that members have the right of collective action. Whether or not it will be in the Public Service Labour Relations Act...

In the estimates we see another $110 million for the RCMP, with about half of that being for contract policing. Has your department, working with the commissioner, looked at the impact on the fiscal framework of the legislation that will be in front of the House in the next few weeks, in terms of how much upward pressure it may put on budgets?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Very briefly, Minister.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

The Supreme Court has been very clear that RCMP members not having collective bargaining rights is in violation of their constitutional rights, so the legislation will remedy that constitutional defect. That will result in a bargaining process that, as with the bargaining in all other sectors of the public service, will be handled by Treasury Board.

You will find in the legislation a design to ensure that the unique nature of policing operations is appropriately safeguarded.

Commissioner, do you have some thoughts that you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm sorry, we're at the end of the member's time. Thank you, Minister.

It's hard to cut off Mr. Goodale.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Worse still to cut off the commissioner.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Oh, I'm worried about that.

Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you very much for being here and for bringing your officials with you. I'm going to change the subject just a little bit.

I've met with representatives of the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies and the John Howard Society. They've talked to me about devastating personal and financial costs to individuals because of changes that were made by the previous government to pardons or record suspensions. I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I may ask Mr. Cenaiko to comment as well, because he has the task of dealing with these challenges.

There has been a considerable backlog. Through his own good internal management within the Parole Board, he has been able to make progress in resolving the backlog. There is still some of it remaining, but as I understand it, Mr. Cenaiko is expecting to be able to deal with most of that over the course of the next year or so.

There were also changes made in terms of fees that were charged and the time that is taken, and so forth. We will re-examine all of that to ensure it is good, solid public policy, not intended to accomplish an ideological purpose but in fact designed to contribute to the well-being of Canadians and to public safety.

Harvey, do you have some comments to make on the backlog?

[Harvey Cenaiko, Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada]

I just have—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Actually, I have only five minutes. What you've told me is good enough that I can take it back to them. I'm sorry to cut you off, but I have a couple of other things I want to ask you about and I don't have much time.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Okay.

By the way, after I leave, the officials will be able to stay for a while.