Public Safety Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2017

[Martin Bolduc]

We have a fairly robust training program for all new recruits. Training is delivered at our national college in Rigaud.

Yes, if Bill C-21 receives royal assent, we will make sure that whatever impacts the reality of our border services officers, they're made aware of, but we don't foresee any remedial or additional training that would be needed by our officers.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Pierre Paul-Hus]

Thank you.

Up next is Mr. Dubé.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Unless I am mistaken, the information on permanent residents and individuals who are not Canadian citizens has been collected since 2013. Have complaints been submitted by anyone from whom information has been collected?

[Martin Bolduc]

No. There have been no complaints.

One of the recommendations of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada was to put up signs at the land border to inform travellers that information will be shared.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

That brings me to my next question.

Will a system be set up in the event of someone wanting to challenge the information, especially when it comes to social programs, because they think that an error was made or that erroneous information has led to the government trying to take money away from them?

[Martin Bolduc]

Travellers must be informed, but that information is already provided on entry in the declaration card—form E311.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Allow me to clarify. I was talking more about a challenge mechanism.

Let's take the example of someone who gets a call and is told that they will no longer receive their old age security pension or will no longer be entitled to employment insurance because of a trip they may have taken. Yet errors can be made in administration. If that is the case, is there a mechanism for the individual to challenge the decision and say, for example, that someone had the same name as them or that files were perhaps mixed up? As we know, things like that happen.

[Martin Bolduc]

At the agency, the Recourse Directorate receives those types of complaints. I think that other departments have a similar organization or directorate for those kinds of incidents.

Perhaps you could put the question to my colleagues from the agency.

[Andrew Lawrence]

The information itself would not trigger an automatic cessation of any benefits. It would open an investigation—by a human—to verify continued eligibility for those types of programs. The CBSA has a recourse program as well as an online complaint mechanism. When people have a complaint or concern, there are multiple avenues through which they can bring that concern forward to the agency.

Our information-sharing arrangements with CBP and the Department of Homeland Security include a rectification clause. If there is an error, if there is an update that has to be made to a record, they share that information with each other. The files are then updated based on the true and complete information.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you.

As time is running out, I will move more quickly.

If someone tries to enter the United States, but they are refused access, will information be collected on their attempt to exit, or is that done only when they successfully leave, so to speak?

[Andrew Lawrence]

The information is submitted to CBSA upon entry to the U.S. In those cases where individuals are refused entry, they are sent back to a meeting with a border services officer at a land border, for instance. We process their return.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I have another question, which I'm not sure you will be able to answer.

There is a fairly robust program in the agreement with the U.S. My understanding is that this is only the beginning of that kind of integration at the border. Could you give us an idea of the steps that will follow, if Bill C-21 is passed?

[Martin Bolduc]

When it comes to information exchange with American colleagues on entry/exit, we have been sharing information on a specific category of travellers since 2013. Once the bill receives royal assent, a new group will be added to the list of people on whom we already share information, and it will consist of Canadian citizens.

We already have a robust system in place. We have already exchanged millions of pieces of information.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Are there any ongoing discussions to collect more information on someone who is leaving the country, beyond the information in their passport?

[Martin Bolduc]

No, not at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have two minutes left.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you.

Maybe the Department of Global Affairs could answer my last question, but I will put it to you anyway.

What kind of information can be obtained on an individual from their passport number, given that these are information elements that are exchanged through that system?

[Martin Bolduc]

Earlier, you talked about mistaken identity. The passport number is an element that enables us to do an identity search. So a passport number, a surname, a first name and a date of birth are tied together. That enables us to identify an individual. In fact, a passport number provides us with only limited information.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I'm not familiar with all travel documents, and my question is definitely hypothetical. That said, the bill presents a fairly broad range of travel documents. Are there any travel documents people could have that would contain a number that could lead to more information than what is on page 2 of the passport?

[Martin Bolduc]

The information covered by those provisions is actually just the information on page 2 of the passport. So there is no second tier in terms of information exchange. We are strictly talking about an exchange of biographic information.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

When it comes to information, subclause 92(1)(a) proposed in the bill, states that the agency can collect “the surname, first name and middle names, the date of birth, the citizenship or nationality and the sex of the person”. However, in subclause 92(1)(b), there is mention of “the type of travel document that identifies the person, the name of the country or organization ... and the travel document number”. Can it go that far?

[Martin Bolduc]

I would ask my colleagues to answer that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Please be very brief.

[Martin Bolduc]

Actually, a person can use their NEXUS card at the border. When we refer to “document”, that is what we mean. A person can use their passport or their NEXUS card.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

Go ahead, Madam Damoff.