Public Safety Committee on Nov. 9th, 2017

[Malcolm Brown]

No, I was just describing the feedback from the consultation process. I think any objective observer would say that there are communities that are underserviced, and that's a policy decision that the government is going to have to deal with going forward. There are also issues around the level of servicing in some communities.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

Another item that I was looking at that caught my interest was with respect to the Métis nation. There was funding to support Métis rights and Métis relationships with the federal government, with the RCMP. Specifically what issues are you seeking to address in supporting Métis rights and Métis relationships? Is this in relation to the Daniels decision? What is expected from that funding?

[D/Commr Gilles Michaud]

From the funding itself, we're funding coordinators in Métis communities across the country. It's basically to build that bridge with the communities to understand what their needs are and how we can help. Those coordinators have been in place for a period of time now, and we've received some very positive feedback from the communities in which we're operating.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Okay. Thanks.

In the course of our study on indigenous incarceration, one of the issues that's come up a few times is differential funding for section 81 healing lodges. There is some funding in these supplementary (B)s that goes to issues concerning indigenous incarceration. Does any of that money go to start equalizing the funding between section 81 lodges and the ones that are run by the correctional services?

[Malcolm Brown]

I think it's important that Anne reply to your specific question. Then I can describe what the funding is for community-based reintegration of indigenous offenders.

[Anne Kelly, Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada]

In terms of the healing lodges, as I mentioned at last week's committee, we've now created a stronger agreement framework in consultation with current section 81 agreement holders. We've also revised a formula for funding that recognizes the unique requirements of different healing lodges, including their size and where they're located.

Actually, just a few weeks ago we entered into a new agreement with Waseskun Healing Center in Quebec. We received a letter from them that said how appreciative they were of the new framework and the revised formula.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

All right, but specifically to the question of equalizing funding—it seems to be an issue that has come up a few times when I've looked at the investigators' reports and the like—does any of that help get us toward equalizing that funding?

[Anne Kelly]

Actually, on the revised funding formula, again, it's negotiations between CSC and the indigenous agreement holders. And yes, it will assist.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin.

Mr. Motz, you have seven minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the officials for being here.

This question will be directed to you, Mr. Hill, with regard to CBSA. In May of this year, the current government received a letter from business associations. These business associations raised the issue of CBSA IT problems along with staffing shortfalls at official ports of entry. Since that time, we've learned that the advance commercial information system suffered more than 200 outages in the last two years; that CBSA staff were being moved from the official ports of entry where they ensure the regular flow of goods, services, and people to the unofficial ports of entry to process illegal border-crossers; and that it has been causing delays.

What has your department done to address the concerns raised earlier this year with respect to the IT issues as well as the staffing shortages?

[Peter Hill, Associate Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency]

The agency has a number of consultation mechanisms, in particular the border commercial consultative committee, where we have representation from the senior leadership of many of our closest industry stakeholders. The particular pressures that arose as a result of the outages that you're speaking about were the focus of a discussion with that group. The agency and my colleagues from our information, science, and technology branch addressed the issues and clarified exactly why the issues were arising. They had to do with a change in practice by some of the industries in which they were putting multiple pieces of information on manifests that had not been part of the design of the new IT system.

We resorted to a manual process for an interim period, in collaboration with the stakeholders, to address the issue. The issue has been addressed. The functioning of the system is now smooth.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

What about the staffing issues? What about moving border guards, CBSA front-line officers, from legal ports of entry, normal ports of entry, to illegal border-crossing locations to process people there? What about the backlog it's causing?

[Peter Hill]

The agency is quite adept at being agile in order to address the irregular flow. At the agency, working in collaboration with our partners at the RCMP, Immigration, and Public Safety, we're taking a whole-of-government approach. We established a pool of resources with the qualifications that can be moved from one region to another region in order to surge our capacity to ensure that the management of this irregular flow is orderly.

So that is being done. It is being managed effectively. We will continue to do so to meet the need to ensure that the border is managed effectively.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Hill. I do appreciate that it's not CBSA's issue or fault, if you will, that the illegal border-crossing is still allowed to occur. You are responsible for managing that. I respect that and I appreciate your comments. I think it's important to recognize, though, that the front-line officers are telling us a different story, that there are significant touchpoints at legal points of entry and pressure to process individuals at the illegal ports of entry.

I'm just curious to know, I guess from both you and the RCMP, how many officers have been moved across the country to deal with this 2017 wave of border-crossers and how many of your resources you're anticipating to move for the second wave that this country is anticipating in the near future.

[Peter Hill]

I'd be pleased to follow up to give you the exact number of officers we've moved.

With respect to your second question, the agency, again with our partners in a whole-of-government approach, is well advanced in terms of its contingency planning. We would feel quite prepared in the eventuality of a surge in irregular claimants in the future. We would act accordingly to address that flow of irregular migrants in the event it materialized.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Mr. Michaud.

[D/Commr Gilles Michaud]

Just to add to Peter's comments, from an RCMP perspective, I would need to go back as well to make sure of the exact numbers.

But that's the business we're in. Be it wildfires or the border or significant issues that develop over the course of a year, it's about reassigning the required resources to the highest threats and to where the pressures are. We'll continue to do those assessments and basically work toward making sure we have enough resources to deal with the issues.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

As Mr. Hill indicated, can you provide in writing to the committee the reallocation of resources, how many were from both CBSA and RCMP to deal with the illegal border-crossers, and the attached costs to that as well, please?

[D/Commr Gilles Michaud]

Yes, we can. Maybe just for precision, we reassigned resources not just in Lacolle but also in Manitoba and British Columbia, so we can give the national picture.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

That would be great. Thank you.

You know what? I'll be generous with my last 30 seconds. I exceeded my time before, so I'll pass it over.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I appreciate the nobility, Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Well, I know how much you are a stickler for time, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes.

Mr. Dubé, you have seven minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Brown or Mr. Hill. It concerns the amount allocated to the CBSA for the entire framework necessitated by the legalization of marijuana.

Aside from these amounts, did you have discussions with your American counterparts about what will happen when people who have used marijuana want to cross the border? Did you discuss the questions that will be asked in that context?

Obviously, I know that we cannot change American laws. We should nevertheless be concerned by the fact that marijuana will soon be legal in Canada, and this may impact people who want to cross the border and will be questioned by American officers.

Have discussions taken place to ensure that Canadians who have legally consumed marijuana in Canada will be able to cross the border without issue?

[Malcolm Brown]

I will answer first, and then I will give the floor to Mr. Hill.

First off, I think the minister's been clear on this question, recognizing, as you say, that every country has the right to establish the standards around which it lets anyone in. It wouldn't be appropriate, frankly, for us to counsel the U.S. about changing their approach, in the same way it probably would not be appropriate for them to counsel us on our approach on any of the issues we've discussed today or might discuss in the future about entry decisions that are made by the Government of Canada.

I will say, though, that on a regular basis, our American counterparts are well briefed. These issues are discussed at the highest levels with DHS. They understand the approach. We're continuing to encourage them, as they do with us, to be as welcoming and supportive of Canadians crossing the border into the U.S. as we generally try to be with Americans coming into Canada.

I'll turn to Peter on the specifics, if you want. That was just setting the broader stage that I think the minister has been on the record on quite clearly.