Public Safety Committee on Nov. 21st, 2017

[Dr. Allen Benson]

The aboriginal women population, as we know, is growing faster than any other population in the justice system. There are a couple of key things we'd like to address. One is that we believe it's the responsibility of the men in our communities to start taking responsibility for the abuse that has happened in our communities. The women have worked really hard to be leaders in our healing movement and have made the necessary changes. Now it's up to the men to buck up.

We say that from a number of points. One is to educate our young men properly and to provide them with the right education as to the role of men in our community. The other, speaking as the chair of the Family Violence Death Review Committee, is that we recognize that most of the victimization occurs, and the violence occurs, with our men. As a result, we see victims becoming perpetrators in the women's population.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Chair, in the final 45 seconds—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Excuse me, Mr. Spengemann.

The bells are ringing. Technically, I have to adjourn unless I get the unanimous consent of the committee to finish out the final 10 minutes.

Do I have the unanimous consent of the committee to continue?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Mr. Spengemann, you have 45 seconds.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to explore with our witnesses the potential space for role models in the indigenous community. Is there a space for that?

I know that elders are culturally very important. Is there a potential to construct role models and to showcase role models who have gone through the corrections system, who have turned the corner, and who really could serve as leaders and examples?

[Lois Frank]

Perhaps I could answer, because I feel very strongly about this point.

When we talk about role models, we look outside. I think there needs to be more accountability of our tribal leaders. They should be involved in things like what is happening here. Oftentimes they're off doing something with treaties or economic development and that kind of thing. They're not taking care of their own people.

You know, a lot of people wanted tribal accountability for funds. When the new government took away that transparency, it was a real disservice to a lot of people, because those dollars could be used for programs. Our tribe gets over $120 million. It doesn't trickle down to a lot of the people.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Spengemann, we'll have to leave it there. Mr. Motz, you have the final five minutes.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

First, thank you very much for being here, all of you.

Thanks especially to my friend Lois. Thanks for being here. You prepared a presentation that you didn't have time to present. Could you table it so that it's in the evidence for the committee? That would be awesome.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Is it in two official languages? If not, we'll get it translated.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

I appreciate your last comments. I'd love to explore that aspect. We've had those conversations before, and I agree. I've had many people from my constituency, your reserve, tell me they don't need a dollar more to do what they need to do to make things better on the reserve; they need the transparency act back. They need their chief and council to be responsible for the funds they have and to look after their own people, because your own people are damaging your own people. Those are quotes I've heard from your own people, and I agree with you. Thank you.

I love your approach that we have to get back to the more traditional aspect of grandmothers, which is about the value of family on reserve. We do know that in times past, the grandmothers, the matriarchs, set rules and dictated how things happened. In Ontario, for example, many grandmothers have been very outspoken over the years about having contraband cigarettes and tobacco on the reserves, saying that contraband tobacco brings guns, gangs, and drugs. They didn't want them. The chief and council ignored those things, and we have those issues.

How do we fix the disconnect that I have seen and witnessed on the Blood? There is a disconnect between what the elders and so many of the people want, when the chief and council seem to be, as you said, distracted with other issues that don't actually add value to their people. It's the reason that you and many others from all three communities around the reserve are involved in trying to change that—with me, and I appreciate that. It's fantastic. I'm looking forward to the excitement of it. How do we fix that disconnect, the fact that chief and council are not engaged in this process?

[Lois Frank]

Today in government, half of the people who are in power are women, so I think that could be a start to having the voices. Most times in our community, there's only one woman on council, and sometimes there are no women on council.

That would be something that we could use as a start.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments?

[Dr. Allen Benson]

I come from the Beaver Lake first nation in northern Alberta. We have a woman as chief, and she has been chief for a number of terms now. The issue for us is that it's up to the community to hold leadership accountable.

I'll speak about the 87 elders who were just at a gathering with us to address the issues of culture and leadership in the community. Their response was that it's not the government's responsibility to hold chiefs and councils accountable: it's up to us as the people. I take that to heart and I take that seriously as a leader in my community. We have to do a better job of holding our leadership accountable. It's not an issue that we should leave to government.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

Those are my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I have a couple of minutes left.

Mr. Spengemann, do you want to finish off the questioning?

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's helpful.

I wonder if I could ask a question on the urban-rural divide. It's a fairly general question.

To what extent does that factor in? We're here in Ottawa, and other cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver have large indigenous populations in the urban centres. What about the dynamic between the rural reserves and the urban indigenous population? Where do people get released? Where do they want to be? What are the prospects for reintegration on either side of that fence?

[Lois Frank]

You can look at Rupert Ross. He categorized it. It's not just urban-rural. There are people who are what he termed new traditionalists, as well as traditionalists, bicultural.... It's much broader than just reserves and off reserve.

[A voice]

Yes.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Are there any recommendations in terms of how we address those sensitivities and complexities through our correctional system?

[Dr. Allen Benson]

I think there are a couple of things. One is that we need to be able to be clear that the diversity exists, as our friend mentioned, and, within that diversity, to try to develop strategies that meet those needs.

For example, the mayor and council of the City of Edmonton have chosen to designate specific land and resources for culture and ceremony for those who are interested in accessing that service within the city limits. The other thing they've provided is a centre for transients, for people moving in from northern and isolated communities, where there's a welcome centre to provide the kinds of services that are necessary, and, for those living in the community, to provide that kind of access for those who have grown up in Edmonton to the right services to help them to identify and deal with the issues.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Spengemann.

Before I bring this meeting to a close, I want to thank each of you on behalf of the committee and to thank you particularly for your efforts to be here. They were considerable and commendable.

Colleagues, our final panel is next Thursday. We're going to be three people. We're going to empanel for about an hour and a half and then leave the last bit of the meeting time to get direction from the committee as whole as to where we go from here.

Again, thank you so much.

The meeting is adjourned.