Public Safety Committee on Feb. 27th, 2020

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Well, let me be very clear. The Province of Newfoundland would initiate those efforts. I don't yet know what stage they are at, but I would not wish to mislead you and suggest that work may not be ongoing. It is work that they would be doing.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Okay, well, then I shall ask them whether or not they want that, because I think they have been talking about that for some months now, and you're telling me they're not talking to you about it. That surprises me.

Moving to another point, some questions were asked about the RCMP enforcement on the blockades. I want to ask about the Wet'suwet'en events, not only of this year but specifically last year, when complaints were made about the approach taken by the RCMP—the militarization or apparent militarization of the operation, and other complaints. I understand there is a report, an investigation by the RCMP of that process, that for some reason is taking an awfully long time. Has any report been made to you on the investigation of the complaints that were made—some of them public—about that operation and how it was conducted?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

First of all—in two parts, if I may—I have been made aware and briefed on the work that has gone on with the RCMP, with the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs and, more broadly, with that community, working very collaboratively and closely with Premier Horgan's government. That has been taking place over several months. There was a great deal of engagement.

The injunction made by the courts in British Columbia was issued on December 31, and there was an extended period of discussion and negotiation that took place involving the B.C. government, the RCMP and the hereditary chiefs with respect to its enforcement. There were more than 38 days of discussion before the first enforcement action was taken. That was resolved peaceably. There were no injuries. My understanding is that the policies, procedures and training of the RCMP were followed in this matter.

I am also aware that there is a complaint being conducted by the independent complaint review body. It has not yet been completed. I would await the results before commenting on it.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Do you have any idea as to when that might be forthcoming?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That would have to be asked of the independent review commissioner.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Speaking of the CRCC, there is a request for additional funding here. One of the outstanding issues is the fact that there are 300 or more cases under way that haven't been dealt with. I'm concerned about that. I guess you must be as well, if we're going to start adding on to the responsibilities of that commission by changing the name and including the Canada Border Services, with another 14,000 employees whose work may be subject to this activity.

Can you see any reason why it is taking so long to do these reports, whether it be this one or the ones that are outstanding now?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Again, that is possibly a very important question. Unfortunately, the time has expired.

I caution members that if they are going ask a question towards the end of their time, they should leave time for the minister to respond.

Mr. Morrison.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

Article 5 of the RCMP Act gives you the authority to use the RCMP especially during crises and other situations. Does the RCMP have the right to go onto any indigenous territory in Canada?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

The question is somewhat nuanced. Under the RCMP Act, they are the police of jurisdiction in places where they are governed by the provincial policing agreement that is in place. Like police officers all across the country, they have a responsibility. We talk about rights, but I think it is more appropriate to talk about responsibility. They have a responsibility to provide policing services, to serve and protect the people of their community, and they are guided in that by the law—

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Excuse me for just one second—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

When you talk about the right, the law determines their ability.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

My question is more related to whether they have the right to go onto those territories. A simple yes or no would be fine.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I think it is more appropriately stated that they have a responsibility to provide policing services throughout all of the places where they are the police of jurisdiction.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Okay, thanks.

I have maybe one more question for the RCMP. This does have to do with budgets because it is all money.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That will be a relief for us all.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Maybe the commissioner might want to answer this.

What exactly are the service standards for an RCMP member with regard to an illegal blockade?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If I may, Mr. Morrison.... That is an operational question, and because of that, I will defer to the RCMP commissioner to provide a response.

[Commissioner Brenda Lucki, Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Good morning, Mr. Chair.

We have a specific policy that we have created for indigenous blockades. Of course, enforcement is the last option. It's about dialogue and trying to find a peaceful resolution to the blockades in the circumstances. It's no different from what's happening currently with the Wet'suwet'en.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Okay, great.

What about with a Supreme Court order?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

When there is an injunction, we have the discretion of a couple of things, mostly the timing and the intensity. We can decide when and how we will enforce, even though the injunction is in place. That's the discretion that we've been given.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I think it may be of some assistance, so I would direct Mr. Morrison to the RCMP operational manual, chapter 55.2, “Aboriginal Demonstrations or Protests”, which sets out the RCMP's policy and procedure. I don't want to take up too much of the committee's time, but I would refer him to that policy. He may find it helpful.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I would like the policy on blockades to be tabled as well, Mr. Chair.

Another question I have is with regard to the CBSA, Minister. Is any of this funding that you're asking for going to be diverted or put into a contract for the CBSA employees? I think it's been a few years since they've had a contract. I know that a lot of people in my area are concerned. I'm just wondering if some funding is anticipated to go towards the employees.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, a substantial portion of the CBSA's budget, of course, is directed towards salary. However, an issue with respect to salary is an issue with Treasury Board and contract negotiations. I would say that it is not reflected in the estimates that we bring before you today, but is more appropriately a question directed towards the Treasury Board.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Okay.

Let's go back for a bit to Bill C-71, which, of course, could cost a lot of money, depending on the buyback program.

Could you specifically tell me, Minister, what a military-style assault weapon is? Could you define that for me?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

The reference that we normally imply.... There are weapons that were designed for different things. If we look at the providence of these weapons, there—