Evidence of meeting #4 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offenders.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
As for this case, there is no way of knowing how often he was seeing him.
9:20 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No, the board of investigation is going to look into that, too.
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Right.
We know that Mr. Gallese had a history of violence against women. In the case of his wife's murder, he became quite aggressive and exhibited jealous behaviour. In some media reports I have read that he was beginning to develop a relationship with Ms. Levesque and that his behaviour might have been tending to change towards jealousy.
Could his officer report this to the board?
9:25 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Again, I can't speak to this specific case.
However, when someone is a community parole officer and supervises offenders, there are naturally dynamic factors such as employment, emotional and personal relationships, and family. Certainly those factors would be considered, especially when looking at the offender's criminal history and the cycle of offences. Yes, that would be looked at.
9:25 a.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Certain procedures and measures are established, including that of taking into account the facts and statements of the offender. For example, he himself said that he was not prepared to meet women.
What explanation is there for the fact that, in his release plan, he was allowed to meet women not only for emotional relationships, but also for sexual relationships?
9:25 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I repeat that, as an organization, the service does not support the solicitation of sexual services, but that it's something the board of investigation will study.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
If I may continue on that, you said that Correctional Services doesn't support the practice of recommending that it's okay as part of a rehabilitation project for an offender who is still under sentence to seek the services of a paid sex worker. When was that policy put forth? Is that in policy?
9:25 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Actually, our job is to assist offenders to become law-abiding citizens. That's why we develop correctional plans, and in the correctional plans we set objectives that the offender must meet in terms of programming and interventions. We don't condone offenders in—
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Okay. It's an offence to do that under the law, so you don't condone offences. However, in terms of this particular situation here, he was on parole from March, and that was one of his conditions at that time.
Were you ever aware of that?
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Were you aware that his correctional plan, his rehabilitation plan, included that from March 2019?
9:25 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No, I wasn't aware. As soon as I became aware, I was, obviously, greatly concerned. This is not something that we condone as an organization.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
No. You have said that several times.
When the parole hearing was held on September 22, you said in your first remarks that they categorically rejected that aspect of the plan. What you said subsequent to that was that they did not support that. It was a much more ambiguous statement. The ambiguous statement was presented to the House of Commons. The quote from the board suggested that they didn't reapprove, that they expected a better recommendation in the future. That seems to be a bit of a nuance.
Let me ask you this: When that parole hearing was held and that decision was made, were you made aware that your correctional officers were recommending that rehabilitation, that this was part of the rehabilitation plan? Did you become aware of it then?
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
No. You didn't become aware of it until after the death of Marylène Levesque.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Okay, so this is all subsequent to that. No one thought it was important to advise you that this was going on, that this was so objectionable that it was suggested that Mr. Gallese could commit offences as part of a correctional plan. No one brought that to your attention.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Okay.
During your opening remarks, you talked about the role of community parole officers in the supervision of offenders in the community.
Can you tell me whether there were actual community parole officers working for CSC who met with Mr. Gallese during his parole or was it somebody else?
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
So, CSC staff, perhaps community parole officers, met face to face with Mr. Gallese two to four times a month from the time he was on parole.
9:25 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I don't know at what frequency, but there were CSC staff involved.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
They were involved. Were they doing direct supervision? Did they meet face to face with him or was that done by some third party?
