Evidence of meeting #4 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offenders.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jennifer Oades  Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada
Anne Kelly  Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Sylvie Blanchet  Executive Vice-Chairperson , Parole Board of Canada
Alain Tousignant  Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Martin J. van Ginhoven  Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Parole Board of Canada

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I see a quorum and we have our witnesses in place, so we're about to commence.

Prior to commencing with our witnesses, however, there are several investigations under way, one of which is criminal, and I would be very concerned about anything that might be said, either in questions or responses, that would compromise any investigations. With that caveat, I'm going to call upon the witnesses.

The first witness is Jennifer Oades from the Parole Board of Canada. I'll ask you to introduce your colleagues.

Anne Kelly is from Correctional Service of Canada, and I'll ask her to introduce her colleagues.

My intention is to go through the first hour of questions, and then see whether there is a need for a health break. Thereafter, we'll proceed to the second hour of questioning.

I call on Jennifer Oades of the Parole Board to make her opening statement.

8:45 a.m.

Jennifer Oades Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I am joined today by Sylvie Blanchet, the Executive Vice-Chairperson, and Martin van Ginhoven, the Regional Director General of the Quebec Office.

I would like to start by extending my deepest sympathies to the family and friends of Marylène Levesque. What happened in Quebec on January 22, is an absolute tragedy, and something that should never happen.

We all understand why we are here today. I want to take a couple of minutes to put a frame around that.

On September 19, 2019, a parole hearing was held for this offender. Two Parole Board members reviewed his case to decide whether or not to continue his day parole. During this hearing, the parole officer presented to Parole Board members a release plan that included an element that would allow this offender to solicit women for sexual purposes. The Parole Board members categorically rejected this part of the plan. I want to be very clear about this. They ordered the offender and his parole officer to stop this activity.

The offender clearly understood this, which is confirmed in the recent court statement. The rest of the plan was approved, and a decision to continue day parole was made with a number of conditions, including to report any relationships with women, whether sexual or non-sexual.

On January 22, we were advised that this offender had been charged with the murder of Ms. Levesque. Following that, there was much misreporting and misunderstanding about the conditional release system, so I'd like to provide a few clarifications.

First, the Parole Board is an independent administrative tribunal, which means our decision-making remains free from external and/or political influence. This independence ensures that decisions made by Parole Board members are made solely on the law and the information available to them.

Second, public safety is the paramount consideration in all Parole Board decisions. That is the law.

Third, the Parole Board does not prepare offenders for release. It does not manage or supervise offenders on release. That's the responsibility of the Correctional Service of Canada. The Parole Board is a decision-making body. We conduct approximately 16,000 reviews a year which translates into about 23,000 decisions. Violent reoffending by offenders that the Parole Board has released into the community is extremely rare. About 99.9% of all offenders on day parole have not reoffended violently, and these numbers have been consistent over the past decade.

However, when an incident like this occurs in the community, we take it very seriously. A board of investigation is now under way, as is the normal practice following this kind of incident. It is being co-chaired by two independent external individuals who are criminologists. The Parole Board is fully invested in finding out what happened in this case and to see if there are things we could do better.

The motion of the House also notes concern about the appointment process of board members.

The process to become a Parole Board member is open to all Canadians. It is merit-based. There is a screening process, a written test, interviews and reference checks.

I can say with confidence that the names I forward to the minister for his consideration are all those of highly qualified individuals who could become very good board members.

The Parole Board is a community board. We are, by law, to reflect the diversity of Canadian society. Board members have diverse backgrounds spanning the fields of criminology, law, corrections, education, psychology, social work and the private sector, to name but a few.

We currently have 78 board members. Thirty-nine are full time and 39 part time. Part-time board members are appointed for three years, as prescribed by law, and full-time board members are currently appointed for five years, although the law provides for appointments of up to 10 years.

Over the past few years, the board has improved its diversity to better reflect that of the Canadian population. Fifty-three per cent are women; 7% are visible minorities and 12% are indigenous. Ninety-five per cent of board members have a university degree; 64% have direct experience in the criminal justice field and 32% have direct experience in corrections and conditional release.

Upon appointment, all board members complete an intensive 6-week training program. ln a nutshell, they receive training on relevant law, policy, risk assessment for various offender types, such as women, indigenous, lifers, sex offenders and so forth.

They are then mentored and coached by their respective regional vice-chair, other experienced board members and training staff. Absolutely no board member is assigned any decision-making responsibilities until they have completed their training and have the full confidence of their regional vice-chair. If the committee would like additional information on this training program, I would be more than pleased to provide it.

Training continues on a regular basis throughout a board member's entire mandate. Parole Board members are also supported by highly qualified public service staff. They include hearing officers, case review officers, training staff and our board member secretariat. The law and therefore Parole Board decisions are based on research that clearly shows that gradual, managed and supervised releases provide the best protection of society. The board's risk assessment model is evidence-based and has been adopted in a number of other jurisdictions.

Over the last three decades, there has been continuous improvement in the public safety results the board achieves. It achieves this in partnership with many others, including the Correctional Service of Canada and many community partners. It reflects the research that has continued to progress on risk assessment and the management of risk. In fact, when former Parole Board chairperson Fred Gibson appeared before this committee in 1990, the success rate of offenders released by the board who completed their sentence without incurring a new charge hovered around 70%. Today, it is over 98%.

As much as we strive for excellence in our decision-making, predicting human behaviour unfortunately is not and likely will never be an exact science. In the very rare instances such as this case, where an offender reoffends violently, it is devastating to me, to our board members and to our staff.

In closing, I want to extend my sympathies once again to the family and friends of Marylène Levesque.

I would like to again say to them, to members of this committee and to the Canadian public that I take these incidents very seriously, and I will review all recommendations that could help us continue to improve the board's decision-making.

Thank you.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Ms. Oades.

Ms. Kelly, the floor is yours.

8:55 a.m.

Anne Kelly Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am joined today by Alain Tousignant, Senior Deputy Commissioner, and Larry Motiuk, the Assistant Commissioner, Policy.

First, I wish to express my deepest sympathies to the family and friends of Marylène Lévesque for the terrible tragedy that took place in Quebec on January 22. This is not an outcome any of us ever want to see. We are committed to getting answers for everyone affected by this.

As you know, there are two investigations under way. The first is a criminal investigation by the Quebec City police, and the second is a joint Correctional Service of Canada and Parole Board of Canada investigation.

Given the various aspects of this case and involvement by two separate organizations, this joint investigation is key to getting a comprehensive account of what happened. All five board of investigation members are skilled and experienced, bringing various perspectives to this process. Two external community board members, who are also criminologists, are co-chairing the investigation. This brings added openness and transparency to the process. Once the investigation is completed, we are committed to communicating the results with this committee and Canadians.

I want to be very clear: CSC does not condone offenders seeking sexual services and I am deeply concerned by what happened. I am in my 37th year with the service and can firmly attest to the fact that this is not something that we, as an organization, endorse in how we manage offenders.

I want to be very clear with the committee that CSC does not condone offenders seeking sexual services. I am greatly concerned by what happened. I am in my 37th year with the service, and can firmly attest to the fact this is not something that we as an organization endorse in how we manage offenders. I have made this message very clear throughout the organization and ordered a review of all community strategies across the country as an added measure.

Until the investigations are completed, I cannot speak to the specifics of this case, but I can outline the case management and conditional release process.

CSC's approach is governed by a very comprehensive piece of legislation called the Corrections and Conditional Release Act. Public safety is the most important consideration that underlies everything we do. During the incarceration period, public safety is achieved by ensuring the secure custody of the offender and maintaining a safe environment for both staff and offenders. But incarceration is only a temporary solution, as the vast majority of offenders will eventually be released into the community and become our neighbours. Therefore, an equally important job of corrections is to prepare offenders to safely and successfully return to the community as law-abiding citizens.

As soon as the offender receives their sentence, CSC begins the process of assisting them to become law-abiding citizens. Each offender has their own correctional plan, which is based on addressing the specific factors that relate to their criminal behaviour. The correctional plan details all the programs and interventions to be undertaken by the offender to address the problems that led to their incarceration. It acts as a yardstick against which the offender's progress can be measured throughout the sentence.

The offender’s progress in meeting the requirements of their correctional plan is a significant consideration in any decision related to the offender, with public safety being the paramount consideration.

All offenders are eligible at some point to be considered for some form of conditional release. Federal correctional legislation sets out various types of conditional release that provides offenders with gradually increasing degrees of freedom and trust that help make their transition safer.

Conditional release, however, does not mean the sentence is over, not at all. Conditional release means the offender is serving that part of their sentence in the community, under supervision and abiding by strict conditions. Community supervision is integral to our work, as research consistently shows that the gradual, structured and supervised release process represents an effective means of facilitating a safe and successful reintegration.

The assessment of the offender's risk forms the basis of any conditional release decision made by the Parole Board of Canada. CSC provides information to the board on the offender's criminal history, their involvement in programs and interventions, their release plan and release suitability, and then ultimately makes a recommendation to the Parole Board, including a recommendation for the conditions of release. In addition, community agencies, police, victims and others provide input about an offender's ability to reintegrate successfully. This information assists the board in determining whether an offender should be released and under what conditions.

When offenders are released into the community, the community supervision is carried out by community parole officers who monitor the offender's behaviour and compliance with release conditions. As part of this supervision, the parole officer maintains regular contact with the offender, as well as with police, employers, mental health professionals, the offender's family and others who are involved in the offender's life. This ongoing appraisal by the parole officer provides a continuing assessment of the offender's risk to reoffend. If the parole officer has concern about the offender's risk to the community, the offender can be returned to custody.

ln addition to monitoring and supervising offenders, an important part of the parole officer's job is to ensure offenders are linked to community services, volunteers and programs that can help them successfully reintegrate. In general, the more ties offenders have to the community, the more likely they are to make the successful transition.

Building safer communities is a complex process and CSC cannot and does not work in isolation. As just one component of the criminal justice system, CSC not only works closely with traditional criminal justice partners but also relies on the participation and support of the community.

Communities provide services to offenders and their families that are a vital part of an offender’s safe reintegration. Our community partners include individual volunteers and community organizations such as the St. Leonard's Society of Canada and the Salvation Army.

Offenders come from the community and the vast majority return to the community. Assisting offenders to become law-abiding citizens is the most significant contribution CSC can make to keeping communities safe. Having started my career as a parole officer, I have full appreciation for the nature of the work done by our staff on the front line. It is an important job with a critical role in ensuring public safety. This is why in early February, in addition to meeting with the chief of the Quebec police, I also met with the Quebec regional employees, who are deeply distraught by this tragic incident, to stress the importance of continuing their vital work of supervising offenders in our communities.

Although risk assessment is not an exact science, we manage risk through a robust framework of evidence-based decision-making using the best available information with the assistance of the best tools at our disposal. While I do not want to undermine in any way the seriousness of what happened here, it is important to note that it is incredibly rare. This was also highlighted by the correctional investigator on February 25, when he appeared before this committee. He underlined that this was an “extreme case”.

ln fact, we know that in 2018-19, 99.9% of offenders successfully completed their day parole supervision period without recommitting a violent offence. Moreover, our results show that there was an increase in the safe transition of offenders into the community.

For example, more offenders on conditional release successfully reached the end of their sentence without re-admission, in comparison with the results five years ago.

I know that the correctional investigator recently suggested that CSC is resistant to change. I want to take the opportunity to set the record straight.

We have shown much openness and commitment to making positive improvements to federal corrections. We have seen historic and transformative change in recent years. This past November, we eliminated segregation and implemented structured intervention units. Our correctional programs consistently deliver positive results in reducing reoffending and we continue to focus on improving our culture.

It takes sustained commitment, effort and dedication to deliver good corrections. We know that there is more work to do and we remain committed to self-reflection and improvement. Public safety is at the core of what we do. This is an unequivocal responsibility and a prerequisite to successfully transitioning offenders to the community.

When tragic events happen, we have a duty to closely examine our business to see what we can do better to serve and protect Canadians.

ln closing, I would once again like to express my sympathies to the family and friends of Marylène Levesque.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Commissioner Kelly.

Our first round is a six-minute round. Members, if you could look at me from time to time, I will signal how much time you have left so that I don't have to cut you off in the middle of a question.

Mr. Paul-Hus, you have six minutes.

March 10th, 2020 / 9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I wanted to congratulate the people who wrote your speeches because, from what you are saying, there is no responsibility on either side. It's a little disappointing to see that this morning.

Let me start with you, Ms. Oades.

You know that we are here because the House of Commons voted unanimously—this includes the Prime Minister and all the members around the table—for a motion condemning the decision of the Parole Board of Canada, which led to the death of a young woman by an inmate while he was on day parole.

At that time, did you feel any responsibility? Did you even think about resigning?

9:05 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

It didn't come through. Can you repeat the last part?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

When the House of Commons voted on the motion condemning your organization's decision, did you feel that you had a responsibility? Did you consider resigning at that time?

9:05 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

No, I didn't feel like I should step down. I think there is an opportunity to provide clarification. There were many mistakes and misinformation that were being perpetrated by both, I would say, journalists and members of the House in their misunderstanding of how our system works. However, looking forward, I have huge confidence in finding out if there are things that we could do better.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

I understand that. I must cut you off because our time is very limited.

But, as I understand you, members of Parliament and members of the press are ignorant of how the system works. However, on our side, we hear from many people, people who have worked within the system, who are really disappointed in the way things are going, in the decisions made and in the way the work is being done.

So in your opinion, your organization is just perfect at the moment and you have no responsibility for the murder of Marylène Levesque.

9:05 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

I would not say that we do everything perfectly, but we do follow the law.

The law is very prescriptive. The law provides for all offenders to apply for parole at some point in time of their sentence. The law dictates when they can apply for parole. The law provides a framework from which board members must make their decisions. Then we use our own risk assessment tools, which have been developed not by us, but by experts from around the world.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Let's talk about risk assessment.

You mentioned that your two members, Joseph Lainé and Janie Fortin, included in the report that Mr. Gallese must stop having paid relations with women.

So, in the risk assessment, it was indicated that there was a problem. Why did those two members not reincarcerate Mr. Gallese, when they knew there was a problem? First, the problem was with what was being offered, the ability to seek women to have sex. Second, it was known that the individual had a psychological or psychiatric issue, and there was no up-to-date report. Reports were from two years ago. Nothing was going well in his file. It was a clear case of an individual at risk.

Did the two members not ask for the man to be sent back to prison immediately because of a lack of experience, a lack of competence?

9:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

I'm not going to talk about that particular decision for a couple of reasons. First, they're independent decisions. Second, there are currently two investigations going on. I can say that in making any decision, the board members take all of the information that is available to them and make a decision with the protection of society being the paramount consideration.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Okay.

Let's talk about independence. You mentioned the independence of members. The former Minister of Public Safety, Mr. Goodale, met with members twice, at annual meetings, and he asked them to speed up the process of releasing offenders.

I would like to submit to the committee the record of those two meetings and the dates on which they took place.

Could you tell me whether the Liberals have asked you to increase the number of releases and to speed up the pace?

9:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

Absolutely not. We can't speed up the process. It's written in law when people can apply for release. In fact, 60% of the releases into the community are not made by the Parole Board. Sixty per cent of offenders coming back into the community are statutorily released. That means they're released after spending two-thirds of their sentence incarcerated. In those cases, the board actually sets decisions.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

So there is no obligation to grant releases.

9:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

You can't speed up the process. It's written in law.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

So there is no obligation to grant releases at two-thirds of the sentence if the individuals are not deemed fit to return to the community.

9:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

No. It's the law.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

In fact, there has been a 25% increase in the number of parolees in Quebec.

9:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

Sixty per cent are released at two-thirds and they must be released at two-thirds. It's a statutory release by law and the board does not make those decisions. That's 60% who are released that way. Forty per cent of those released are released by the board decisions. They are either day parole or full parole release. Those times are prescribed.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Were you informed of the letter that was sent by the former members to the Prime Minister in November 2017?

9:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada

Jennifer Oades

I was aware, but I was not here at that time. My appointment began in January 2018, but I was made aware. I have not seen that letter.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

So you haven't seen the letter.

9:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada