Public Safety Committee on Nov. 25th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I call the meeting to order. We see a quorum, and we're ready to go with the ninth meeting of the public safety committee.

We have with us today Minister Blair and his officials. The good news is that there was no vote today, so we are actually starting on time. The bad news is that the minister needs to leave at 5:15. The good news is that the minister can be quite economical in his remarks.

Before I ask him to give his opening statement, I would take note that we are calling votes 1, 5 and 10. At the end of the two hours, I will seek the committee's will with respect to the disposition of these votes.

With that, I will call on Minister Blair for his remarks and for an introduction of his officials.

Minister Blair, you have seven minutes, please.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I will try to be economical in my remarks.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to present to you today the 2020-21 main estimates and supplementary estimates (B) for the public safety portfolio. Fortunately, in order to provide explanation to the committee of these figures in greater detail and to answer the questions that members may have, I am very pleased today to be joined by Rob Stewart, deputy minister of public safety; Michelle Tessier, deputy director at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service; President John Ossowski, Canada Border Services Agency; the senior deputy commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada, Alain Tousignant; Commissioner Lucki of the RCMP; and Jennifer Oades, chair of the Parole Board of Canada.

Mr. Chair, before I get to the estimates, allow me to take a very brief moment to recognize the hard work, professionalism and dedication of the employees across the nine organizations of my portfolio. Their collective efforts, Mr. Chair, have helped protect our borders, our communities, our corrections institutions and our national security. This year in particular, amid the unprecedented COVID pandemic, they have continued to serve Canadians and, I believe, have done an exemplary job in their work to keep us safe.

The estimates before you today reflect the breadth of that work. In my allotted time today, I hope to provide a broad overview of the estimates, highlighting some of the most substantial items for the organizations within my portfolio.

Let me begin with the 2020-21 main estimates. As members will note, the public safety portfolio as a whole is requesting a total of $9.7 billion for this fiscal year. Overall, the portfolio's funding has remained stable over the last few years, averaging 2.6% annual growth based on available funding authorities from 2014-15 to 2019-20. Spending increases for the portfolio in this fiscal year are also expected to be in line with those in previous years.

I'll break things down by organization, Mr. Chair.

Public Safety Canada is seeking a total of $725 million in these main estimates. You will note that there is a request for an increase in funds to protect people from unnecessary violence and to work towards holding criminals to account. This includes an additional $25 million to take action against gun and gang violence, over $10 million to combat human trafficking and to protect children from online sexual exploitation, and additional investments for the national cyber security strategy. Additionally, we are working towards providing additional support for the first nations policing program as well as for infrastructure projects in indigenous communities.

I will now turn to this year's main estimates for other organizations in the public safety portfolio.

CBSA is seeking a total of just over $2.2 billion in 2020-21, a net increase of $80 million or 3.8% over the previous year. The most substantial item affecting this change in funding levels for the CBSA is an additional $75 million to implement and to maintain the agency's assessment and revenue management project. Once fully implemented, this project will modernize and streamline the process of importing commercial goods. The goal is to reduce the administrative burden for importers and other trade partners and to increase CBSA's efficiency and Government of Canada revenues.

The CBSA's main estimates of 2020-21 also include an increase of $17.3 million to enhance the operational response related to the fight against gun and gang violence. Also, you will recall that by launching the Canadian travel number, we have delivered on our commitment to improve air security and offer redress to those who were falsely flagged on the no-fly list. The main estimates include $12.3 million to implement amendments to the Secure Air Travel Act and to introduce a framework for the passenger protect program.

I will now turn to the RCMP, which is seeking total funding in the amount of $3.5 billion in the main estimates for 2020-21. In terms of increases, additional funds relate to contract policing services; support for the renewal of the RCMP's radio communications system infrastructure in Ontario, Quebec and the national capital region; and over $20 million in funding to strengthen federal cybercrime enforcement.

The Correctional Service of Canada is requesting a total of $2.6 billion in the main estimates for 2020-21. The most substantial investment is an additional $49.7 million to support the transformation of the federal corrections system following the passage into law of Bill C-83.

As members know, we have eliminated administrative segregation. The new system, called structured intervention units, is designed to provide inmates the opportunity for more time out of their cells and for meaningful human contact, as well as targeted interventions and programs. They also must receive daily health care visits by a registered health professional and comprehensive mental health assessments. As we have recently been informed, there is much more work to do, though progress is being made. We'll continue to work with groups to ensure adequate reporting and oversight and to measure the progress being made in achieving these important goals.

On that note, Mr. Chair, I will now turn to the portfolio's supplementary estimates, which so far this year total $523.3 million. This represents a small percentage, only 5.4% of the $9.7-billion base funding requested in the main estimates.

On a portfolio-wide basis, the total authority sought in the supplementary estimates (B) more specifically would result in a net increase of $203.2 million. This represents a 1.9% increase over the total authorities provided to date, for a total of $10.7 billion.

If I may, I'll highlight a few key items in these estimates across the portfolio.

Most notably, CSC is seeking $143.3 million in additional funding for support for the Correctional Service of Canada. The supplementary estimates also include a transfer of $58.8 million from Public Safety Canada to the RCMP, and this is for first nations community policing. This transfer covers the cost of the policing services provided by the RCMP under tripartite agreements among Public Safety Canada, the provinces and territories, and first nations.

The RCMP is also seeking $14.5 million in these estimates to implement and maintain the national cybercrime solution. This will provide the national cybercrime coordination unit with the IM/IT functions it needs to receive, store, analyze and share cybercrime data and establish a public reporting website.

The CBSA is seeking an additional $6 million for measures to enhance the integrity of Canada's borders and asylum system, and is also seeking funds to crack down on fraudulent consultants. More specifically, funding will support an IT system and changes to ensure that CBSA's case management systems reflect the recent changes to Canada's immigration laws.

Finally, Mr. Chair, I'll note that your documents also outline the 2020-21 main estimates and supplementary estimates (B) for CSIS, the Parole Board of Canada, the Office of the Correctional Investigator, the RCMP External Review Committee, and the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP. Additional funds for the Parole Board of Canada, in particular, will work towards addressing workload capacity for those involved with decisions pertaining to conditional release to ensure we are keeping our communities safe.

This has been a difficult year for Canadians, but regardless of the area in which they work, our employees have risen to the challenge. They work hard to keep us safe and secure.

Mr. Chair, I welcome the opportunity for me and my officials to answer any questions the committee may have.

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Minister Blair. Thank you for your co-operation in our always constrained time with you.

With that, I'll call on Ms. Stubbs for six minutes, please.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Chair, and thanks to the minister and officials for being here.

The estimates, as you mentioned, show a 25% funding increase for CSIS, and a 2020-21 departmental plan notes many priorities, but I don't see anything on foreign interference.

To the CSIS director, last week your spokesperson said that China's Communist Party uses spies to intimidate and threaten Chinese Canadians on Canadian soil and that these illegal activities threaten Canada's sovereignty and the safety of Canadians. The foreign affairs minister said that the public safety minister would be bringing additional measures forward. What are those measures?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Are you directing that to the minister or to the CSIS director?

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

It's to the CSIS director as a first try, since we asked the minister this question in the House last week.

[Michelle Tessier, Deputy Director, Operations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Thank you for the question.

I would highlight that CSIS is mandated by its authorities as defined in the CSIS Act. The threats that CSIS can investigate are well defined in the act, primarily in terms of foreign-influenced activities and espionage. Foreign-influenced activities are defined as having to be deceptive, clandestine or a threat to Canada's national interests. In that vein, I can assure the committee that foreign interference and espionage remain very much a primary threat and a priority investigation for CSIS.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you.

Can you let Canadians know if any individuals in Canada have come forward to the authorities you've outlined about intimidation or harassment since those reports were published last week?

[Michelle Tessier]

Unfortunately, as I'm sure you appreciate, I can't get into any specific operational details. What I will say is that we work very closely with communities in Canada and with our law enforcement partners to investigate any harassment or threats to these communities. It is important for us to ensure that Canadians feel safe and that they don't feel that they or that their families are being threatened. In that vein, it is important for us to maintain those contacts and work with our law enforcement partners and any other stakeholders to investigate any threats to Canadians.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you.

I trust that you likely coordinate with the FBI. Of course, there were reports last week that a month ago, the U.S. charged eight individuals for these exact activities. Do you know, or can you let us know, whether any of those eight had any activities in Canada? How many foreign agents have been charged in Canada, or are any charges pending?

[Michelle Tessier]

I unfortunately can't get into those operational details in terms of the FBI arrests. Neither can I discuss individual investigations. Talking about any charges would be better responded to by my law enforcement colleague.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

To the minister, then, I'll just follow up one more time on the question we asked in question period, which he didn't answer specifically.

Minister, can you tell us exactly what measures you will be implementing to confront and combat the issues of foreign intimidation and harassment in Canada?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much for the important question.

Ms. Stubbs, you'll recall that when I last appeared before the SECU committee, I actually raised the issue of the hostile activities of state actors and spoke very specifically about this issue with respect to the Chinese government in particular.

Although I'm sure you appreciate that it's entirely inappropriate to talk about any matter of ongoing investigation or to speak of elements of national security, I can tell you—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Sir, the foreign affairs minister said you would bring in additional measures to combat what clearly we now know really is happening in Canada, as I think probably most Canadians are shocked to learn.

What I'm trying to do is get a specific answer from you. What are those additional measures that you will bring in?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Let me just give an example—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Maybe what the foreign affairs minister was saying wasn't accurate. Maybe you aren't bringing in additional measures. However, I'd like to give you the option to answer.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

The foreign affairs minister and I work together very closely. I'll attempt to answer your question.

Ms. Stubbs, you've asked a number of question previously, for example, about Operation Fox Hunt, which actually began in 2014. Quite frankly, when we came into government, the operational posture and response in 2014 was determined to be quite inadequate.

As a consequence, we have very significantly changed the approach of our law enforcement officials and CSIS by taking a far more proactive approach. We do a great deal of outreach to individuals who are affected. There are things that are being done and will continue to be done. We're continuing to enhance our response.

However, with great respect, in my opinion it is not appropriate to discuss in this forum those matters of national security, intelligence gathering or law enforcement.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Minister, I would suggest that it is more than appropriate for you to tell Canadians exactly what you are going to implement to protect their safety and sovereignty, which, thank goodness, most Canadians are learning about now.

On another note, CSIS reports that Alireza Onghaei runs a company that has been “assisting the government of Iran in the clandestine wiring of monies into Canada.”

Do you or anyone in your department or the agencies under your portfolio know of any politically exposed persons who might be involved with Onghaei?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

As you note, our officials have done a very exemplary job in identifying and gathering the evidence in order to deal effectively with this threat. I'm unable to discuss particular elements of that intelligence or that investigation in this forum.

We always take steps to make sure that if there are vulnerabilities identified, they're dealt with appropriately.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Stubbs.

Mr. Iacono, you have six minutes.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you for being with us and for your presentation, Minister.

We are all aware of the exceptional working conditions faced by the people from the organizations represented here today, who are responsible for our safety. I would like to express our thanks and support to them.

With respect to spending for 2020-2021, I'd like to discuss with you the phenomenon of recurring floods. It's a major concern, for Quebecers specifically, especially people in the Montreal area and, most particularly, for residents in my area, in Laval.

Could you tell us what steps the government is taking to anticipate and respond to the problems associated with this natural phenomenon? Floods have done a lot of damage in the past, and they could get worse in the future because of global warming.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much. I agree that this is a very important question.

Floods and the recovery from those floods have significantly impacted Canadians rights across the country and, as we both know, in the province of Quebec. That's why the Prime Minister mandated me in my portfolio to take action to create a more resilient and sustainable approach to floods in Canada. A very important and key component of this approach involves the creation of an interdisciplinary task force on flood insurance and relocation, as we announced earlier last week.

The task force will be given the job of looking at options to protect homeowners who are at high risk of flooding and who do not have adequate insurance protection and to examine the viability of low-cost national flood insurance programs. The task force is made up of representatives of the federal government, the provinces and territories and first nations. We've also gone into the private sector; for example, the insurance industry is represented at that discussion.

We will be sharing information and working closely together to engage various departments, including first nations off reserve, in providing a more effective response. I've also worked with the infrastructure minister with respect to providing funding to various jurisdictions for flood mitigation and flood prevention initiatives. It's a very comprehensive approach.

Angelo, we believe that the work of this task force in providing greater resiliency and protection for the victims of floods as well as a national insurance plan is going to be key to helping us provide a much more effective response.

I won't take the time to speak about this, but you know as well that the government, through the DFAA program, provides funding through the provinces to assist with flood response. We believe that a dollar invested in prevention is a far more effective dollar than one simply invested in recovery. We'll always be there for people who are victimized by floods, but we are doing some very important work to mitigate those problems before they happen.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Minister. Your answer is very reassuring.

Another major issue we have in my constituency, Alfred-Pellan, is about the detention conditions in prisons and the working conditions for the staff there. These individuals have been hit hard by COVID-19.

Could you provide us with more details on the response in the first wave and the costs of implementing preventive measures prior to the second wave that we are currently experiencing?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much. This is a very important question.

There are nearly 14,000 people serving sentences in our corrections institutions, and we have a duty of care to protect them during the unique challenges that occur in our correctional institutions as a result of COVID.

During the first wave, the Correctional Service of Canada did an extraordinary job, working with the Public Health Agency of Canada, provincial health authorities and regional health authorities, in making sure that their institutions were safe.

When infections were brought from the community into the institution, I believe they took some really extraordinary steps. There have been health and safety audits and infection control audits. They provided PPE to inmates and to corrections workers in the institutions. There have been a number of very effective measures. As a consequence, after the first wave they were able to wrestle that pandemic in the institutions well under control.

We were very fortunate to go a number of months, but unfortunately, with the recent surge within the community, we're starting to see that surge reflected. In your riding in particular, in the Drummond Institution, we now have 18 inmates suffering from infection, and a number of corrections officers, who of course live in the community. We are also monitoring very carefully the federal training institution, with which you are very familiar.

As of today, there are 95 inmates in the federal population right across the country who are infected with COVID. They are receiving treatment within the institutions, and we are taking very significant steps on that.

If there is more time, I would invite the deputy director of the Correctional Service of Canada to talk about some of their measures. I think the model that the Correctional Service of Canada implemented is a model that would serve well, to all of the provincial governments and other jurisdictions to show how effective safety measures can be implemented to keep inmates safe.