Public Safety Committee on Nov. 25th, 2020

[Rob Stewart, Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

I have not met Dr. Zinger as yet, owing largely, I think, to the COVID pandemic and the occupation of doing other things. However, the minister has, and I have spoken with the minister about Dr. Zinger and his report and I have talked to the commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada about the report and about the agenda. Of course, the department and the staff had worked with the Correctional Service to respond and to ensure that those responses embed the views of the minister. We are actively working to try to pursue the agenda that Dr. Zinger has laid out for the Correctional Service, again taking into account some of the barriers that are imposed by the COVID pandemic.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay. Thank you. I think I have a minute left, right, or just under.

I do recommend you meet with him. I just spoke with him not too long ago. There's a lot of really good stuff happening there.

To the person from corrections, do we have results of the FASD pilot project that was being done at the Regional Psychiatric Centre in Saskatoon? If you could send them to us, that would be great.

[Alain Tousignant, Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada]

Thank you. I don't have those results with me currently, but we will make sure to forward them. I will do a follow-up and make sure that you receive the information you're looking for.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay, and also, if the results were good, can it be expanded to all of the institutions? I know that's a challenge all of our correctional facilities face.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

All I have is Mr. Motz for two minutes, and the Liberals could indicate whom they wish to have for the next two minutes.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

My question is again directed at Minister Blair. I'll be gentle with you this time, Bill.

The total dollar amount of your portfolio, both statutorily and voted upon, will be $10 to $10.7 billion, up $2.2 billion from 2015, but as you know, sir, since 2015, Canada has faced a growing opioid crisis, a growing number of shootings, a higher urban crime rate, a higher rural crime rate, a higher violent crime rate, growing court backlogs, fewer victims' rights, questions around the strengths of the correctional system, questions around the parole system, questions on police oversight and issues of foreign interference and foreign influence. There have been deep concerns raised by nearly every department under your watch, and more money, yet worse results. Clearly, your plan is failing.

Minister Blair, I have to tell you that I personally believe you're better than this. Do you intend to present a new, real plan that addresses public safety, or do you intend to continue down the current path with these failed results?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Glen. Thank you personally for the vote of confidence that you're offering to me.

I will tell you that one of the challenges our government faced was trying to recover from the deficit reduction action plan of the previous government, which cut $900 million—almost half a billion dollars—from the RCMP and nearly $400 million from CBSA and made cuts to all of our national security agencies, including the Correctional Service of Canada, right across the board. These were massive cuts. They necessitated the elimination of police units and intelligence units that were doing really important work in this country.

When we came in, we began the long and sometimes challenging process of rebuilding that capacity and getting police services back up to the strength that they needed. I think the cuts that were made were, frankly, reckless and irresponsible, and they've had very long impacts.

For example, you eliminated all of the integrated proceeds of crime units in the country and the expertise that those units represented. There were police officers who had spent decades conducting crime investigations; we lost them—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm going to have to—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I had one more question, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I know you have tons of questions, Mr. Motz, but your time is way past. This was a brief interlude of harmony that apparently has dissipated quite rapidly.

With that, Madam Khera, you have two minutes, please.

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Commissioner Lucki, my next question is for you. My question is the same question I asked you the last time you were here, but we ran out of time to get an answer, so I'll try today.

There have been many calls for a reconstruction of the RCMP to remove contract policing. We have heard this from numerous witnesses, who said that the RCMP is too big and has too many roles, which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to govern, and that the RCMP needs to get out of contract policing.

We certainly saw the shortcomings of contract policing just recently in the RCMP's failed approach to advancing indigenous reconciliation. In fact, we've seen quite the opposite.

Can you comment on whether you think the current RCMP contracting model is a good idea, considering your mandate to advance indigenous reconciliation, or should it be removed?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I will go off the minister's previous comments, in the sense that when properly funded, the model is very strong. It's flexible and it's nimble in its ability to move resources when situations arise, such as forest fires in Fort McMurray or a terrorist investigation in Kingston. We can bring specialized resources in when we wouldn't have all of those in Kingston, bring them in, front-end load an investigation and work toward solving those crimes. It gives us the flexibility to move the resources, but it needs to be properly funded.

We are doing a review of policing, of contract policing itself, and how it interworks with federal policing, to make sure that the model is sustainable and that the model is serving the needs of Canadians and meeting the expectations of a safe Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you very much, Madame Khera.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for one minute.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I have a quick and friendly question for Minister Blair.

Later on in the House, we will be having an exploratory debate on French. On many occasions, I have been at border crossings and had trouble being served in French.

Does the Minister have an action plan or vision for improving French-language services at the Canada Border Services Agency?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much for a very important question. I want to assure the member that we are absolutely committed to ensuring that our services at CBSA and in every part of our portfolio are offered in both official languages.

I would invite President Ossowski to speak specifically to CBSA's effort in that regard.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have 15 seconds, please.

[John Ossowski]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just reiterate the minister's commitment and my own personal commitment to doing better in this regard. We get complaints on this from time to time and we follow up to make sure officers on the front line are fully aware of their obligations to provide services in both official languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

We go now to Mr. Harris for one minute.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

The issue of being properly funded is important for the needs of indigenous policing in Canada, which has long been regarded as under-resourced and underfunded.

Could you, Mr. Blair, point to anywhere in the main estimates we've been given today where we can see the $275 million that is supposed to be allocated for indigenous policing? Does this appear in the main estimates before us?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Jack.

I'm advised that through the main estimates, a total of $167.5 million in contribution funding is being sought for a first nations policing program for 2020-21. Additionally, our government announced $88.6 million in contribution funding over seven years for policing facilities in first nations and Inuit communities under a program that is separate from but complementary to first nations policing.

Finally, Jack, let me advise you we're working very closely with the Assembly of First Nations and the national chief. We are providing additional resources to allow them to engage with us and work comprehensively and effectively in the co-production of a new legislative framework for first nations policing that would make it an essential service in this country.

I agree with you that the inevitable outcome of that new framework will be a recognition of additional funding that will be required. We'll bring that forward after that work is near conclusion.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

I think that brings to a conclusion the minister's appearance before the committee.

I need guidance from my colleagues as to whether we'll have officials continue until 5:30. I'm not quite sure, in this hybrid setting, how you could indicate to the chair that you wish to continue.

The alternative is to move to the votes, of which there are at least two. The first are the main estimates, and then there are the supplementary estimates. I will need the clerk's guidance as to whether we do a roll call vote or whether we do an indication vote.

First of all, is there an appetite to continue beyond the minister's presence here?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I'd just like a follow-up from someone—perhaps from the RCMP or department officials—on the last question I had with respect to the $275 million. This was supposed to be new money to deal with making indigenous policing an essential service. I don't see, in the answer of the minister, that there's actually that much new money. There's existing funding that's available...unless someone can correct that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

If I'm giving Mr. Harris a question, I feel I'll have to give the other parties questions.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

With all due respect to Mr. Harris, Mr. Chair, we would certainly enjoy another question or two, at least until it's time to do the vote. We would have to ask it in order.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Perhaps we could just ask for a written response from someone to the committee at a later date.