Evidence of meeting #9 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michelle Tessier  Deputy Director, Operations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
John Ossowski  President, Canada Border Services Agency
Brenda Lucki  Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Rob Stewart  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Alain Tousignant  Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Mark D'Amore

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

You have about 30 seconds, Mr. Iacono.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Thank you, Minister. That's very reassuring.

I'm glad to know that we will be better prepared in this case, and that it will be before rather than after the fact.

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Simard, I welcome you to the committee.

You have six minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to discuss border services with the minister.

I don't know if the minister remembers, but during the first wave, we had a lot of issues with snowbirds. These are seniors escaping from the cold Quebec winters by driving their recreational vehicles to the United States. They were told to come home, and it was done in a somewhat disorderly fashion. Some municipalities have had a lot of trouble finding places for these individuals.

However, we're now seeing people successfully circumventing non-essential travel rules by having their RVs trucked across the border and flying on their own to their destination. I don't know if the minister is aware of this problem.

Have steps been taking to educate these individuals about the dangers of non-essential travel to the United States but, more importantly, to document cases of individuals using such strategies?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Simard, for a very important and very timely question, because exactly as you have explained, last spring, when COVID first became prevalent in North America, there were quite a number of Canadians, particularly Canadians from Quebec, who were down on spring break in the United States and in other places in the world. They had, under the Constitution, a right of return. We will always let Canadians return. Unfortunately, that did create a vulnerability.

The current situation is that, first of all, Global Affairs Canada is strongly advising all Canadians not to travel out of the country, to remain in Canada, but of course we don't have the authority to prevent people from making the choice to go to other jurisdictions. The rules that you talk about being circumvented are not actually Canada's rules; they are the United States' rules. The United States, although they closed the land border reciprocally with us last March as a result of discussions and arrangements that we made to restrict non-essential travel, did not put in place restrictions to prevent people from flying into their country similar to those Canada put in place.

In Canada, the rules are quite strict that non-essential travel is restricted in both land and air modes. In the United States, the Americans have allowed people to continue to fly into the U.S. As a consequence, some Canadians are in fact making the decision to fly into the U.S. to vacation or to spend their winter in Florida, in Arizona or in other places. They are not breaking any of our laws, but let me assure you that upon their return to Canada, first of all, under the Constitution, they will have a right to re-enter Canada, but they will be ordered into quarantine by whatever rules may exist at the time of their return. Right now, that's a 14-day quarantine. They will be ordered and required to quarantine upon their return.

CBSA has to allow Canadians to re-enter Canada, but they will be subject to the Public Health Agency of Canada's rules under the Quarantine Act and will be subject to quarantine. We will continue to discourage it, because, frankly, any Canadian travelling to another jurisdiction.... I would strongly urge them not to do that, but should they choose to do that, they should make sure they have good health insurance and make sure that they will have access to adequate health care.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Thank you, Minister.

You stated earlier that the CBSA is asking for an additional $6 million in funding and that some of this money will be used to address the issue of fraudulent consultants. In our constituency offices, we frequently have constituents tell us that they have been approached by individuals who look a bit suspicious. The same names come up again and again.

Does the Canada Border Services Agency maintain a registry of fraudulent consultants? What specifically will the additional funds requested be used for?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON

Again, Mr. Simard, that's a very important and relevant question. I would invite President Ossowski to provide you with some insights on the work that CBSA is doing and how the funding we are providing to them will be utilized.

November 25th, 2020 / 3:55 p.m.

John Ossowski President, Canada Border Services Agency

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question.

I'm happy to report that we will be receiving $10 million over the next five years and an additional $2.1 million ongoing to increase our criminal investigation capacity. We currently have about 50 consultant-related investigations opening each year. This new funding will allow us to do an additional 13 or so cases a year.

I would say that the cases vary broadly in terms of the levels of complexity and effort required to bring them to some resolution. Some can take years. I can say that of the 376 cases we have open right now, 288 are still at the investigative stages and 88 are at a point where charges have been laid and the matter is before the courts.

We appreciate these resources. It's an important issue for us to ensure the integrity of our immigration system.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Mr. Simard, you have 30 seconds left.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Really? I still have a little time left?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Yes.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Thank you.

I'd like to know if we have guidelines establishing what a fraudulent consultant is. We sometimes see people seeking support for their application process to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, and having to pay huge amounts of money. What defines a fraudulent consultant? Do we have guidelines for how much a person can be charged, which would help detect fraudulent consultations?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Mr. Simard has again asked an important question. He does have a second round, so possibly he could get that answer in the second round. The six minutes are up.

Thank you.

Mr. Harris, you have six minutes, please.

4 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister Blair, to our committee for the main estimates.

As you know, our committee is undertaking a study of systematic racism in policing in Canada, and we have a lot of evidence before us.

I want to draw your attention to the report of retired Supreme Court justice Bastarache last week, entitled “Broken Dreams — Broken Lives”. It's a very appalling account of what he referred to as a “toxic culture” within the RCMP that encourages or at least tolerates misogynistic, homophobic and racist attitudes. He went so far as to say that he didn't believe that the RCMP could change the culture from the inside. In fact, he said, “true change can only take hold...if independent external pressure is brought to bear.”

He also said “...fixing the RCMP and addressing the negative culture that has taken root will take an immense effort and require the good will of its leaders and members. Most of these individuals are invested in the status quo and will not likely want to make the necessary changes to eradicate this toxic culture.” .

That's quite an indictment, I would suggest, Minister. What I would like you to tell us is whether you are committed to eradicating this so-called toxic culture. Are you prepared to provide the external pressure that is required, according to Justice Bastarache, to see that it happens?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON

Jack, let me begin by giving you the shortest possible answer, and the answer is yes. I am absolutely committed to that. I will tell you that the report, which I have read in its entirety, documented the devastating effects that sexual harassment and sexual violence has had on women in the RCMP. Like all Canadians—and, I believe, like the mass majority of RCMP officers—we are appalled by the lived experience of the women whose concerns were documented in this report, and they are completely unacceptable to us.

Justice Bastarache, I think, very helpfully has provided us with a number of very important recommendations. I'll give the RCMP commissioner an opportunity to speak to the very important work she's doing in response to that.

Jack, if I may answer your last question, you'll recall that in the throne speech, which you very kindly supported when it was voted on, we very clearly stated our commitment to bringing about reform of the RCMP and in particular to dealing with issues of governance, oversight and accountability. The government is prepared and is working towards fulfilling that responsibility, and so the work should be done both internally by the RCMP and externally by the government.

4 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Let me get to the accountability aspect. The Civilian Review and Complaints Commission of the RCMP chairperson was before this committee in July, when she said that the commission needs to be better resourced in order to conduct systemic reviews, yet we see a decrease in the funding for the CCRC in the main estimates and we have had outstanding complaints for three years or more that have not been dealt with and 175 reports have been sitting on the commissioner's desk since March.

What is that in terms of accountability if we don't have the additional resources that are necessary? Is the minister prepared to agree that the system is not working and needs to be fixed and better resourced?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON

Thank you very much. That's another very important question, Jack.

Let me simply remind you that earlier this year, we introduced Bill C-3, which actually had attached to it $24 million in additional resources for the CRCC and introduced legislation as well. That legislation also requires, in my opinion, very clear and mandatory timelines for speedy resolution. I am absolutely committed to ensuring that the important function of oversight and accountability for the RCMP, and as well for the CBSA, needs to be strong in legislation and properly funded to ensure that the independent reviewers we task with this important work have the resources, the tools and the authorities they need to do the important job. I think public trust is absolutely contingent upon both that legislation and those investments. We'll be reintroducing strong legislation in that regard.

I can also inform you that I know that the CRCC chair and the RCMP commissioner have been working together to significantly improve those timelines and to address the backlogs that existed. I'm prepared as well, in the interim, until we get this legislation passed, to take additional measures as required to ensure that those timelines are in fact met and that the resources are available to the CRCC to do their important work.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

These are the main estimates, though, Minister Blair, and there's no additional money to allow the CRCC to actually do the job the commission is asked to do. It's all very well to have high-minded words on what we're going to do, but these are the estimates that the commission has to work with. They're not able to do their job and do these systemic reviews that are required or meet those timelines. I think that's the reality that I'm calling out here today.

Mr. Chair, I don't know how much time I have left.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

You're down to 10 seconds.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

I don't think I'll have time for a preamble, let alone a question.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Well, I know that's just not even throat-clearing time for you, Mr. Harris.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Thank you, Chair. I'll have another round, I'm sure.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

You will indeed.

That does bring us to the end our first round.

Our second round is five minutes each, except for the NDP and the Bloc. We will have Mr. Motz, Mr. Khera, Mr. Simard, Mr. Harris, Mr. Van Popta and Madam Damoff.

Mr. Motz, you have five minutes.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Blair and officials, for being here today.

Minister, on May 1 of this year, you and your government, through an order in council, brought in a gun ban. Close to 2,000 previously legal firearms are now prohibited. Upon examining the estimates, I'm having trouble finding the cost associated with this particular buyback program. Can you tell us the total cost of the buyback program?