Public Safety Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Sorry, I just want to clarify. The motion passed. Is that correct?

There was a motion to adjourn debate, which failed. Therefore, we went back to the motion, which we just voted on, and it carried.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Simon Larouche]

The motion to resume debate has passed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

We voted down Ms. Dancho's motion. Then we voted in favour of the motion to resume debate.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Okay. Thank you, Chair.

On the motion, I'll ask for a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

We are discussing the actual motion itself to summon the three witnesses.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Sorry, it's not to summon; it's to invite them.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

When we voted on the adjournment of the debate requested by Ms. Dancho, we were still in the middle of a debate, so I don't understand why we had to vote to resume that debate. I was sure we'd just voted on the motion and passed it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

I just want to be very careful on the procedure of this, very quickly.

A motion was brought forward to resume debate by Ms. O'Connell. A motion to adjourn the debate was brought forward by Ms. Dancho. We voted on that motion first. We dismissed the motion to adjourn. We went back to the motion to resume debate, which we just voted in favour of.

Now we have resumed debate on that motion, which is to invite those three witnesses. Now we are on the substance of that motion. We need one more vote to actually....

Mrs. Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

For clarification, we were having a debate on Ms. O'Connell's motion, and after that, there was a motion to adjourn that debate. We voted against that. Doesn't that imply that we are back on the debate on that motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

The initial motion was to resume debate. We passed that motion to resume debate, so now we're on the substance of that motion.

Procedurally, that's where we are.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

That's fine. I'll ask for a recorded vote on the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Okay, we'll have a recorded vote on the motion.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

There are still people on the speaking list, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

I've already called for a vote. I'm sorry.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

You can't call for a recorded vote when there are still people on the speaking list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Mr. Lloyd, I hear you, but three seconds ago your side was under the impression that the motion had actually, in substance, passed.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

That doesn't matter, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

You can challenge the chair if you want, but I've called for the vote.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Before I challenge the chair, I will just say that this is a bad precedent. It basically means that the chair can unilaterally say.... When somebody says, “I want a recorded vote”, you can cut off parliamentarians' ability to speak when they're on the speaking list. That actually goes against the fundamental rules of Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

I hear you, Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

If there is a member who wants to speak, they have the right to speak. When the speaking list is exhausted, only at that time can there be a recorded vote. This is a fundamental right of parliamentarians.

My name was on the speaking list. I waved at you several times. You weren't paying attention. I made it known to you at the soonest availability that I was ready to speak. Ms. O'Connell said that she wanted a recorded vote, but there was no.... She was still speaking at the time. She was speaking. A member cannot just call for a recorded vote and cut off debate. That is just an absurd, gross violation of our rights as parliamentarians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you, Mr. Lloyd.

I genuinely did not see your hand up.

Again, I was under the impression that a few seconds ago, your side was okay with the entire motion passing, so I assumed that—and you guys are shaking your head—you guys were okay with it. I didn't see any hands, so I thought we'd move on to the vote.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

This is a violation of the Standing Orders, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Mr. Viersen.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm just arriving here, and it does seem that there's a lot of confusion as to which motion we are on. Can you restate what motion we are debating right now? Then I'll decide whether or not I need to be on the speaking list.