Public Safety Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I have a point of order.

I'm curious. I'm usually not on this committee, and it has been rather confusing since I've been here.

I'm just wondering if I could hear what the motion actually is, again.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'll read it, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

It's been emailed. It's been shared in everyone's inbox.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'll happily read it so that the Conservatives know what they're filibustering.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

I can read it, Ms. O'Connell.

That, in relation to its study of Indian interference, the committee invite the following witnesses:

1. The Honourable Michelle Rempel Garner, P.C., M.P., Calgary Nose Hill;

2. Mr. Jaskaran Sandhu;

3. Mr. Harkirat Singh.

That's it.

Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's always been my experience in this committee that members are given latitude to get to the point. It's the same thing in the House.

If Ms. O'Connell wants to keep cutting me off before I can make my point, then we can have a very long committee meeting today, or we can just get through what I'm about to say and move on in this discussion.

Standing Order 116(2)(a) says:

Unless a time limit has been adopted by the committee or by the House, the Chair of a standing, special or legislative committee may not bring a debate to an end while there are members present who still wish to participate....

Further, paragraph (b) of the standing order says:

A violation of paragraph (a) of this section may be brought to the attention of the Speaker by any member—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I have a point of order.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I was almost done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Chair, he is trying to relitigate a ruling you already ruled on. In fact, the whole issue was about him wanting to speak to this motion, and now he's refusing to speak to it. If the Conservatives would like to justify why they don't want these three members to come, then that's fine, but I would like the relevance.

It's very disrespectful to your ruling, Mr. Chair, that you gave him the opportunity to speak on the main motion and now he's not doing it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.

Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll take a little step back:

(b) A violation of paragraph (a) of this section may be brought to the attention of the Speaker by any member and the Speaker shall have the power to rule on the matter. If, in the opinion of the Speaker, such violation has occurred, the Speaker may order that all subsequent proceedings in relation to the said violation be nullified.

This committee study that we've been having on the issue of Indian foreign interference is important. I want to continue on with this study, but I just think it's important, because there was so much confusion in this committee over your initial ruling.... I do appreciate the fairness that you brought when you changed that. If we had gone forward with a recorded vote on this motion while there were still members.... I take you at your word that you didn't see or didn't claim to see, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Mr. Lloyd, I've already ruled on this. Please move to the substance of the motion.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I've been talking about India.

Do you recognize me, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Yes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

I've been talking about the motion. I talked about the fact that we almost had a recorded vote on the motion. This is clearly on the substance of the motion, the fact that we almost had a recorded vote so that members couldn't have a debate on this.

I appreciate the fact that you have rescinded your initial ruling that you said you didn't see anyone on the speakers list. I do appreciate the fairness with which you have conducted this committee. It can get quite bumpy at times, Mr. Chair, but I do appreciate that you took a step back there and that you've let members have the opportunity to speak—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

On a point of order, it's for Ms. Dancho. She wanted to know the standing order. It's Standing Order 11(2), in regard to order and decorum and repetitive questioning.

Chair, at some point, you'd have to rule for the member to either get to the relevance of the motion, which they are avoiding speaking about because they don't want to invite these three witnesses, a Conservative colleague of theirs.... They're filibustering. If he has nothing relevant to say to move to the motion, then I would—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

On a point of order, this is debate, Mr. Chair. She doesn't have the floor for debate.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

—suggest you move to the next speaker.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.

[An hon. member]

That's not a point of order, Chair.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

That's totally a point of order. Relevance is a point of order.

[An hon. member]

Well, you've said it like five times.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Well, then get to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Mr. Lloyd.