Evidence of meeting #136 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fentanyl.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Can you answer my question about the previous 1,100 CBSA agent cuts? Have they been restored in addition to more officers added?
This seems to be a question of contention, and I would like to have some answers on that.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Our overall complement has increased. I'm afraid I can't answer about the 1,100 very specifically.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
That's fair enough but, overall, the complement has increased.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes, this is the highest number of people we have had working at CBSA.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho
Thank you very much.
Ms. Michaud, you have two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I have two quick questions for Ms. O'Gorman.
The first concerns the request by the Customs and Immigration Union to allow officers of the Canada Border Services Agency to patrol between border crossings to assist the RCMP. The last time you appeared, you talked about this request and said that it could very well be done.
In your opinion, or to your knowledge, is this the kind of thing that could appear in the plan that the minister will table?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Thank you for your question.
I find it interesting that the union is saying that officers could patrol between border crossings as early as tomorrow if a certain order in council from 1981 didn't exist, while thousands of agents are still needed.
You can't do everything at the same time. We carry out our mandate every day at ports of entry.
We work side by side with the RCMP, who is carrying out it's mandate. If the government provided CBSA with the resources and the mandate to do that, we would. That's not my area of focus right now. My focus is on the ports of entry, our people internationally, the marine ports and inland. We have 200 investigators. That is my focus.
So it's a little easy to say that this order in council is the only thing preventing us from doing that. We carry out our mandate at ports of entry across the country and around the world.
Thank you for asking me this question and for giving me the opportunity to clarify certain things about a comment that, from my point of view, was somewhat simplistic.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you.
In terms of border crossings and the reduction in hours of service, the last time you were here you said that you had aligned yourselves with the U.S. schedule and that about two cars went through every hour anyway. Your organization has provided us with the data on how many vehicles go through every hour. We see that between 6 p.m. and 10 p.m., at the Trout River and Herdman border crossings, the ones I mentioned to you, on average, more than two cars go through every hour. That's 14 for Trout River and in 18 for Herdman. So the effect is perhaps greater than we thought.
At this point, would it be possible to resume discussions with the U.S. to see if we can keep those border crossings open between 6:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m.?
I even see that before 8 p.m. or 9 p.m., there are fewer crossings than after 6 p.m. Is that decision taken with the United States set in stone, or can we still talk to them to make adjustments?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes, it's an average. So there are periods when there are more and periods when there are fewer. I don't want to minimize the situation for people who were using those ports of entry at those hours—I know it has an impact on them—but in both cases, another port of entry isn't very far away. I know that adjustments are necessary—
Conservative
President, Canada Border Services Agency
—but that was the result of lengthy negotiations.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho
Thank you.
Mr. MacGregor, you have two and a half minutes.
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I think that, in a previous exchange with Mr. Lloyd, you reported the rough number of 4,000 organized crime groups in Canada. They are on a spectrum; they don't all have the same capacity, number of members, etc. Amongst that 4,000, I think that there are some that operate in many different countries. They have very organized and sophisticated distribution networks and so on. I guess what I'm wondering, Commissioner, is about resources that the RCMP has specifically for organized crime.
In your opinion, what is the most effective way to combat organized crime? Is it economic starvation, continuously interrupting their source of income?
I'm worried that a lot of the people who are getting arrested may be quite far down the organizational ladder. What more do you need from us to go after the people who are the leaders of these organizations?
Commr Michael Duheme
I just want to clarify something mentioned earlier. The 4,000 number comes from the CISC, which is the Criminal Intelligence Service Canada, and the definition of organized crime in the Criminal Code is a group of at least three individuals engaged in ongoing criminal activity for the purpose of making money. I don't want to alarm everybody. That definition is very....
With regard to your point, Mr. MacGregor, I think there are strong collaborative partnerships—intelligence-sharing is one—making sure that it's not only law enforcement. However, I think we have to look at bringing a different perspective of who is better positioned to ensure that there is maximum impact on organized crime. Maybe it's the Canada Revenue Agency, if you get into the books. Often, a money laundering file does not start with the money laundering itself; it starts with the commodity, and then it leads you into money laundering.
Definitely, if you cut off the source of income, that's where it's going to hurt the most.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Raquel Dancho
Thank you very much.
We have about 11 minutes left. We're supposed to have two more five-minute rounds. If that works for everyone, we'll wrap up after that.
Conservative
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I have just one question. I want to go back quickly to the people on the terror watch-list whom the U.S. has intercepted down there.
What have we done here in this country to tighten our border security so that these terrorists aren't admitted in the first place?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
The scenario you cited was people going to the U.S. and being turned back.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
I'm talking about the ones in Canada already. What are we doing to make sure that those on terror watch-lists aren't allowed to continue to enter Canada?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
With regard to the statistics of people whom the U.S. encounters and turns back, those people may be Canadian as well. I wouldn't take that whole number and say that they are all foreign nationals into the country.
Conservative
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Okay, so, with regard to your question about those who have come from abroad, who are foreign nationals in Canada, being turned away, certainly, our colleagues from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada would be well-placed...but they have tightened up their visa requirements.
Mr. McCrorie can talk maybe a bit about the security screening process if you'll—