Public Safety Committee on Dec. 14th, 2021

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Mr. Chair, I concur with this motion from my colleague. This is a very important and pressing issue, more so because of the inordinate amount of time that this government has taken on this issue.

It's becoming apparent to Canadians that it is highly unlikely that the government is still waiting on the results of some sort of national security review and that this decision is most likely sitting with political decision-makers who are refusing to make or announce a decision. That's speculation, but Canadians want to see a path forward and they want to see what action this government is going to be taking.

This motion really illustrates why it is so vitally important. We have seen that taxpayers are possibly incurring a growing liability each and every day that the government doesn't make a decision. We know that many Canadian telecom companies are pursuing partnerships with Huawei and using Huawei technology, and it's been reported widely in the media that we're talking about investments in the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars in Huawei equipment. The longer the government chooses to delay it, the bigger the potential liability for Canadian taxpayers if these telecom companies choose to take legal action against the government to recover the costs of their investments.

It's only fair to all parties involved, and Canadians, for the government to issue a clear directive on which direction they want to go. As noted in the motion, the Prime Minister promised on September 28 that this decision would be made in the coming weeks. We've heard over and over again that a decision is going to be forthcoming, yet no decisions are being made.

The longer we continue with this, the more of a farce it becomes. If the government does not want to make a decision on this issue, they should be clear with Canadians that they're not going to make a decision so that everyone can plan accordingly.

The fact is that they do have to make a decision. It's their job. They're in government. They were elected to a minority government to make decisions on behalf of Canadians on our national security and our telecommunications infrastructure. There's no more ragging the puck on this. They've got to come to a resolution to this issue for the reasons that were put forward.

We know that telecommunications costs and cellphone costs for Canadians are among the highest in the G7 and the world. What we don't want to see is Canadian consumers getting penalized by the costs of the government's indecision on this matter, and these costs being passed along to consumers with regard to higher Internet broadband and cellphone bills.

It's very appropriate of this committee to call on the Minister of Public Safety to.... We're not even necessarily calling on the Minister of Public Safety to make a decision before the year's end, but we're calling on him to tell Canadians when a decision will be made, which is entirely reasonable for this committee to ask.

We've given plenty of leeway to this government to review the facts. We've had several election campaigns when the government could talk to their constituents, to Canadians, about their concerns on this issue.

It's time for a resolution. If this committee needs to be the one that pushes that first domino over, let it be this committee that does it.

I support this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Mr. Lloyd, I'm sorry, but you'll have to put your mask on.

Is there other commentary?

[The Clerk]

Mr. MacGregor raised his hand first.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Mr. MacGregor, go ahead.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Go ahead, Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I just wondered about your comment to please put my mask back on. Is it the practice of this committee that when members are engaged in speaking and drinking a glass of water, they are still required to wear their masks?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

No.

Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm just speaking briefly in support of this motion. That's one of the reasons I couldn't vote to adjourn debate. One of the important roles of a legislative committee is that oversight function over the executive branch.

I believe that for too long we have been awaiting a sense of direction from the government on this issue. It has consumed the media for a number of years. Many people in Canada are not sure why we continue to have a delay on it.

As a part of our oversight functions over the executive branch, I definitely support this committee taking a firm stand and sending this letter to the minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Are there any other comments?

I see a hand up, but I don't know whose it is. We will have to figure out this technical glitch for next time.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

May I speak, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Madame Michaud, is it you? Go ahead.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I thank Ms. Dancho for tabling her motion, with which I am in full agreement.

I also fully agree with what Mr. MacGregor has just said. It is high time that the government make a decision and inform the House. We asked it to take a position over a year ago, so I will be supporting this motion.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Are there any other comments?

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Mr. Chair, I too want to speak in favour of this motion.

It's high time that Canada makes a decision on this very important question. As has been noted already, we are the outlier among our closest allies, the Five Eyes. It is high time for us make a decision.

The market hates uncertainty, and that's what this government's dithering on this issue is doing. It's bringing uncertainty into the marketplace. Investment dollars are sitting on the sidelines, wondering where they should go and which technology Canada is going to follow. It would seem obvious, at least to the casual observer, that we should be working with our Five Eyes allies, making the right decision and making that same decision, but more importantly, a decision has to be made so that the market going forward knows where we need to go.

We live in a competitive world, and certainly that is the case with high-tech industries. We need to get on with it so that Canada can remain competitive and we can keep growing our economy, creating good jobs for people, and letting our investment dollars know where to land and where to invest.

It's certainly a public safety issue involving national security. I would really urge the government to step forward and make that decision, and an encouraging word from this committee would go a long way toward encouraging the Prime Minister and his cabinet to go ahead and make that decision, finally.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you.

Are there other comments from members of the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Mr. Noormohamed, go ahead.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Many of us are confident that the government is not only going to review, but will make the appropriate decision.

It's important, given the comments that have been made today, to reflect on how we ended up having to have this conversation in the first place.

Before some of us were here in 2012, if I remember correctly, it was Prime Minister Harper who was talking about what a wonderful important honour it was for him to preside over the signing of the agreement that Huawei had formed with Telus. Indeed, that was in some sense the precursor that has put us in the situation where we are today.

As we seek to work together on these things, ascribing blame to the government of the day to try to expedite a decision right away belies the need to think about how we ended up where we are. It's important to realize that there have been so many close contacts, close relationships, and close supports between the Conservative Party and Huawei over the course of the last number of years.

I'm glad there are so many of us now who agree it is important to have an appropriate review and an appropriate process. Due process is important in making sure the government makes that decision in a way that protects the interests of Canadians, as it has always done, and takes into consideration the information that our intelligence agencies provide, which it always does. That is the right approach.

This is one of those situations in which Canada's national security decisions are going to be made by the people who know it best, and we should be confident in that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Are there any other comments from members of the committee?

[The Clerk]

Ms. Dancho—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Go ahead, Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I don't think we should be supporting this motion. I think we're dealing with national security issues and the development of the 5G network in Canada. I think that the national security agencies need to be involved. I recognize that other countries have made decisions on 5G. We're taking that into account. I do trust that the minister and the government are taking all of these things into consideration.

I think the motion is asking for us to encourage the minister to make a decision. I know that the government is seized with this issue and is looking at it. To make assumptions like my colleague across the way did about why things are happening and say that that the decision is just sitting on a desk is unfair. It leads to Canadians thinking that we are not taking their safety seriously. We do.

As a government, we don't rush when it comes to the safety of Canadians, nor should we. I think it's very important that the government take the time. They've made statements on when this decision will be coming. If the telecom companies have invested in something, that's a corporate business decision. I don't think it's something that we should be getting into here at the committee. I think we should be considering this in the perspective of national security and ensuring that Canadians have confidence that the government has reviewed all of the issues before us and that we are moving forward in a responsible way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Are there other members of the committee with commentary?

Is that Ms. Dancho?

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do believe that the public safety committee of Canada is a long-standing committee and that its responsibility, among many, is to ensure the public safety of Canadians. We do believe that this a national security issue. This is well within the scope of this committee. I do believe it is a duty of ours to indicate to the government that there has been enough waiting. It is time for a decision. Canadians want a decision. They have been promised a decision. The telecommunications companies would like a decision. Again, this government has been in power for six years, and they have been promising a decision for three of them.

Australia, New Zealand, the U.K. and the U.S. have all moved forward in the last number of years and made decisions. There is no reason we cannot do the same for Canadians. Again, I think that this Liberal government has been marked with indecision and blaming former governments. Ultimately, the decision remains with them. They promised to deliver it, and I do believe it is the duty of the public safety committee of Canada to ensure the safety of Canadians. That includes our telecommunications security.

Thank you.