Public Safety Committee on Aug. 16th, 2022

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Did he ever mention to you in the discussions you had with him, either before the mass casualty incident or afterwards, that he was talking regularly with people in government?

[Lia Scanlan]

No, he did not.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

So you're not aware that he may have had any discussions directly with the minister's office, where he had worked previously to this job in the RCMP.

[Lia Scanlan]

Correct, I am not aware of that.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay.

Ms. Scanlan, in your notes or your letter, you're quite descriptive of your experience with the situation on April 28. Also, you mentioned earlier that two hours beforehand, I believe, you had been informed that they wanted the details released. Who asked you that question?

[Lia Scanlan]

It was Deputy Brennan.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Is the recollection in Superintendent Campbell's notes of that meeting accurate, from your perspective?

[Lia Scanlan]

Absolutely.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Did the minister say that she promised the minister that she would provide that information?

[Lia Scanlan]

I believe you meant the commissioner.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Yes, I meant the commissioner, sorry.

[Lia Scanlan]

I don't recall verbatim the exact words that were used, but I would never dispute Darren Campbell's notes. I just think that, at the end of the day, whether we're saying “promise”, “pressure” or “influence”, they all lead to the same end result.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

I have a lot more questions, Madam Chair, but I do have a motion I'd like to move at this time, if I could.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

MP Perkins, it's your time, so go ahead.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I would like to put this motion forward: “That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee hold a three-hour meeting on the allegations of political interference in the 2020 Nova Scotia mass murder investigation study, including 30 minutes of committee business, no later than September 16, 2022, to hear from the following witnesses: Zita Astravas, chief of staff to the Minister of Emergency Preparedness; Felix Cacchione, director of Nova Scotia Serious Incident Response Team; Ken MacKillop, assistant secretary to the cabinet (communications and consultations), Privy Council Office; Dan Brien, director of media relations for the RCMP; Cindy Bayers, director of strategic communications, RCMP; and that the calendars and phone logs from April 18, 2020, to April 22, 2020, of the Minister of Emergency Preparedness and his deputy minister and his chief of staff be provided prior to the meeting.”

I believe that has been provided to the committee for the clerk to circulate.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, MP Perkins.

May I suggest that we pick this up after Mr. Noormohamed, Mr. MacGregor and Ms. Normandin ask their questions? If it's the will of the committee, we can pick this up at the top of the hour and let our witnesses go following the questions.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's fine with me.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Is there any objection from the rest of the committee members to finalize our questions?

Go ahead, Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, can we ensure that the motion is sent in both official languages to all committee members?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, Ms. Normandin.

My understanding is that the motion is being passed around in both languages to committee members as we speak. Thank you for that question.

Mr. McKinnon, you had your hand up, but I see it's been lowered. Do you have anything to say?

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I was going to speak to the motion, but if we're going to take it up later, I'll take it up later.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Okay.

Let's get back to our questioning, and we will pick this up at the top of the hour after we let our witnesses go.

We're going over to the Liberal Party for five minutes.

MP Noormohamed, go right ahead.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being with us today. I also want to thank you for the kindness and compassion that all of you have shown, in particular in dealing with the victims and the victims' families. As someone who has had the privilege of working as a public servant, in many cases alongside the RCMP, I know that after a tragedy where lives were lost, the work you do is incredibly important. I can only imagine the toll that it has taken on all of you. I want to thank you for what you have done and for the work you have been doing.

I want to begin by asking a question related to the ATIP process. Ms. Whelan, could you very quickly explain to us who handles the ATIP process and whether political offices can dictate what is and is not released?

[Alison Whelan]

In this case, it was an ATIP from the Privy Council Office. In general, the ATIP shop would contact the office of primary interest and they would identify potential redactions. The ATIP shop would then confirm, and the information would be released to the requester.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you.

If I could switch gears a bit now, I'll start with you, Chief Superintendent Campbell. When you were describing your recollection of the events, you noted that you had never heard from the minister or from any other political office, whether it was the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister's Office, a direction to the commissioner to demand the release or instigate the release of any information. Is that correct?