Public Safety Committee on Aug. 16th, 2022

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Chief Superintendent Leather stated in an interview with CBC that he specifically raised the issue of the April 22 call with the justice department because he was concerned about the relevance of that in regard to the later April 28 meeting. Are you saying that Chief Superintendent Leather basically just imagined that he brought up the April 22 call with your officials?

[François Daigle]

I've spoken with the two counsel who met with him on the 5th. They tell me that he did not raise it. It is not in the notes he submitted as part of the 2,400 pages of notes. Nothing in his notes mentions this call to the commissioner on the 22nd.

During his testimony, our counsel were surprised to hear for the first time that there had been a call on the 22nd, because it had never been mentioned before he testified on the 27th.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I just think it's very interesting, because Superintendent Leather stated that that was the whole purpose he wanted to talk to the Department of Justice: It was about that April 22 call. So if that was the whole purpose of the meeting.... Like, he didn't mention that it was about a wellness report. He mentioned that it was about the April 22 call and what he could and could not share.

The main reason he reached out to you guys was about the April 22 meeting, but you're saying that you don't have any evidence that he brought it up at the meeting.

[François Daigle]

I'm saying that our counsel are telling me that he did not bring it up at the meeting and he didn't reach out for us to talk about the April 22 call. He met with counsel in order to be prepared on his entire testimony, not just the question of the April 28 meeting or the call of April 22. He didn't raise that, and there's nothing in his notes for us to have raised it with him either. We didn't know that there was that call. We learned about it for the first time when he testified about the call on April 22 at his testimony before this committee and then the commission two days later.

The wellness report either...because it was commissioned a year after the events; I'm not sure by whom, but by the RCMP. He raised it for the first time on July 5. We had never heard of it, and so—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Have you had time to review this wellness report, now that you bring it up?

[François Daigle]

I have not reviewed it myself, no, but our counsel have, and the redacted version—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Does the Department of Justice consider that this is privileged at this time?

[François Daigle]

We have produced a copy of the report for the commission. The commission has not yet decided whether to make it public, in part or in whole—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Is it redacted in any way?

[François Daigle]

It is redacted for personal information. That is my understanding, but I haven't seen it myself.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Is your department responsible for the redactions on Lia Scanlan's testimony that we've seen the commission release?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

You have time to respond, and then we have to wrap up.

[Owen Rees]

I'm not sure which redactions you're referring to, so I'm afraid I don't know the answer.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, MP Lloyd.

We're going to have to move on to the Liberal Party.

MP McKinnon, you have five minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I'm actually going to take MP McKinnon's time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Okay.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you very much.

Deputy Minister, I have just a few questions, because I think we've gone over this quite extensively.

Can you just confirm that the Minister of Justice and his office had no involvement in the decision to retain the 35 pages of senior officer notes, including those of Superintendent Campbell?

[François Daigle]

That is correct. They've had no involvement in the decision to disclose the 2,400 pages or to flag the 35 pages for review. In fact, they've had no involvement in any of the productions of the 75,000 documents that have been produced so far.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

In terms of the determinations of relevance and privilege and redactions, those are made strictly by Justice lawyers and paralegals in consultation with relevant departments and agencies. The Minister of Justice and his office are not involved in these decisions.

[François Daigle]

That is correct.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

Finally, Deputy Minister, you provided the committee with a six-page letter. I thank you for doing that. Is there anything that you provided in that letter—you had only five minutes for your opening, and I know that you've been testifying for an hour—that you have not had an opportunity to speak to and that you'd like to speak to now?

[François Daigle]

I don't think so. I'll just quickly go through it, but I think we've covered everything that's in the letter.

No. I have nothing else. Thank you.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

You're welcome.

That letter is public. Anyone watching this is able to access the letter that was provided to us for more information.

Based on your testimony, Deputy Minister, I think it's pretty clear that the Minister of Justice and his staff had no involvement in decisions that were made in terms of what was turned over to the Mass Casualty Commission.

Chair, I would imagine that we'd want to take a short break while we change panels. I'll turn the rest of my time back to you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Raquel Dancho]

Thank you, MP Damoff. You are correct that we will suspend the meeting while we change panels.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

Thank you very much.