Public Safety Committee on Feb. 1st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Good morning, everybody, and welcome from blustery, stormy, frigid Winnipeg, although it's quiet on the streets.

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number four of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

I have a long list of public health protocols that I read before every meeting. Can I have the permission of the committee to dispense with reading them all verbatim? Good. I will just say that when you're speaking, please speak slowly and clearly, and when you are not speaking your mike should be on mute.

I remind everyone that all comments by members should be addressed through the chair. With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk, to the best of his ability, will advise the chair on whose hands are up, and we will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Colleagues, we now move to committee business. Your subcommittee met last week to consider the business of the committee and has agreed on a number of items. You all received by email a copy of the first report of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure. As mentioned in the report, the analysts have prepared a work plan that included one-hour panels of three witnesses in order of priority, which was distributed to all members.

Does the committee wish to adopt the report?

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I so move.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

I see thumbs up everywhere.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

I would like to ask the committee to consider the adoption of a budget for the study of gun control, illegal arms trafficking, and the increase in gun crimes committed by members of street gangs. You have all received that by mail. It covers costs related to our meetings.

Do I have an agreement on the budget? I do. Thank you, everybody.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the House of Commons on Tuesday, December 7, 2021, the committee is resuming its study of gun control, illegal arms trafficking, and the increase in gun crimes committee by members of street gangs.

With us today by video conference from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is Michael Duheme, deputy commissioner, federal policing; Stephen White, deputy commissioner, specialized policing services; Michel Arcand, assistant commissioner, federal policing criminal operations; Don Halina, director general, national forensic laboratory services; and Kellie Paquette, director general.

From the Canada Border Services Agency, we have Fred Gaspar, vice-president, commercial and trade branch and Scott Harris, vice-president, intelligence and enforcement branch.

From the Customs and Immigration Union, we have Mark Weber, national president.

From the National Police Federation, we have Brian Sauvé, president.

Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks by each of these organizations, after which we will proceed to rounds of questions.

Welcome to you all.

I now invite the RCMP to make an opening statement of up to five minutes.

The floor is yours.

[Deputy Commissioner Stephen White, Deputy Commissioner, Specialized Policing Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, and good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Stephen White, deputy commissioner for specialized policing services. As was just mentioned, I'm joined today by Michael Duheme, deputy commissioner, federal policing; assistant commissioner, Michel Arcand, federal policing; Director General, Kellie Paquette, Canadian Firearms Program; and chief superintendent Don Halina, national forensic laboratory services.

It is our pleasure to address you today to explain what actions the RCMP is taking to address gun and gang violence including the smuggling and trafficking of firearms.

As are all Canadians, we are deeply troubled by the impact of gun and gang violence on Canadians and on our communities across the country. Reducing this violence is, therefore, a priority for the RCMP not only in the communities and areas we serve but also more broadly across the country as we provide critical frontline operational services to law enforcement agencies across Canada to aid their efforts to tackle gun and gang violence.

In this way, the RCMP's mandate to address gun and gang violence, and firearms smuggling and trafficking, is both comprehensive and complementary.

Every day, the Canadian firearms program, the RCMP's forensic laboratories, Criminal Intelligence Service Canada, or CSIC, and our federal policing program work collaboratively and with law enforcement agencies right across the country, including where the RCMP serves as police of jurisdiction, and internationally to support the identification, arrest and prosecution of criminals and criminal groups that seek to commit gun- and gang-related crime.

From the CFP's Canadian National Firearms Tracing Centre and its firearms technical and enforcement experts that aid investigations and the prosecution of persons and groups involved in the criminal use of firearms; to the forensic laboratory's ability to restore serial numbers that aid tracing efforts as well as link seemingly unrelated criminal cases to a single firearm; to CISC's intelligence holdings on known or suspected criminals and criminal groups involved in serious or organized crime that are accessible to over 380 federal, provincial and municipal law enforcement and public safety members across Canada; and to federal policing's efforts to target transnational organized crime networks that exploit our borders, including firearms smuggling, the RCMP continues to help address gun and gang violence across Canada and the illegal movement of firearms into our country alongside our federal, provincial, municipal and international partners, including the CBSA.

The RCMP works with a number of police services from indigenous communities along the Canada‑U.S. border to help address organized crime, and the smuggling of guns and other illicit activities. These partnerships help target criminal networks that exploit—

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, we're not getting the translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

I'm getting it. You're not?

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm not, no.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Okay.

Clerk, we have a translation issue.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Chair, the French and the English were at the same volume. It was hard to hear one language over the other.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

How about other members? Were you getting translation but it was garbled?

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Chair, I was getting it the same way as Mr. MacGregor, with English and French at the same time.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I was getting the floor in French, but the translation was also coming through in French. I had set it up as English on my Zoom.

Maybe we can just try again. Perhaps it's been sorted out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Okay.

Well, let's keep going. Members will let me know if there's still a problem, and we will pause until it's been corrected.

Please proceed, sir.

[D/Commr Stephen White]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Wassim Bouanani]

If I may, Mr. Chair, perhaps I can suggest to the witnesses that they select the floor option when they speak, and not the English or French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

With the interpretation icon, you have three choices—the floor, English or French. The clerk is suggesting that you have it on floor.

[The Clerk]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Okay.

Proceed, sir.

[D/Commr Stephen White]

Thank you.

These partnerships help target criminal networks that exploit the border to smuggle illegal goods, including firearms.

We also work in close collaboration with our U.S. law enforcement partners to combat cross-border threats, including firearms smuggling, through several well-established operational partnerships, while at the strategic level the RCMP is a member of the Canada-U.S. cross-border firearms task force announced earlier this year.

CBSA is leading efforts for the Canadian side of this task force, and the RCMP will be at the table. Taking part in this initiative will assist the RCMP in pursuing criminal investigations, in partnership with our U.S. law enforcement partners, that involve cross-border smuggling. A recent example of our efforts was on November 26, 2021, when members of the integrated RCMP Cornwall border integrity team, working with several domestic partners, seized 53 restricted and prohibited pistols, six prohibited rifles and 110 high-capacity magazines. It is believed these firearms were destined for criminal networks and illicit gun trafficking groups.

The RCMP in also benefiting from recent investments to enhance our ability to tackle gun and gang violence and firearms smuggling. In 2018-19 the RCMP began receiving $34.5 million over five years to expand the services available to law enforcement by enhancing several capabilities to better combat the use of illegal firearms and improve the national collection, analysis and sharing of firearms-related intelligence and information. Further, the RCMP is providing specialized training to law enforcement agencies on firearms identification, regulatory requirements and new technologies and emerging trends in firearms trafficking and illicit manufacturing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Can you start to wind down, please, Mr. White?

[D/Commr Stephen White]

Yes, I'm almost finished, Mr. Chair.

Additionally, and beginning this fiscal year, the RCMP will receive $40.3 million over five years and $5.5 million in ongoing funding to address firearms smuggling, including investments to support CISC's new Canadian automated criminal intelligence information system that will help all law enforcement in Canada to target and disrupt criminal activity.

As well, the RCMP will further receive an investment beginning this fiscal year of $15 million over five years to increase our capacity to trace firearms, and identify the movement of illegal firearms into and within Canada.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. We welcome your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much, Mr. White.

I now invite the CBSA to make an opening statement of up to five minutes.

[Scott Harris, Vice-President, Intelligence and Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency]

Good morning, Mr. Chair, and members of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. Thank you for inviting me to participate in the meeting today.

My name is Scott Harris. I'm the vice‑president of the intelligence and enforcement branch. I'm pleased to be here, on behalf of the president, to answer your questions about the significant steps that the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, is taking to prevent illegal weapons from entering Canada.

I am joined today by Fred Gaspar, vice-president of commercial and trade.

The CBSA ensures compliance with existing laws, regulations and orders, including the Customs Act, the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code, and any and all of the laws that prohibit, control, and regulate the importation of goods into Canada.

In these efforts, the CBSA works closely with other law enforcement agencies, such as the RCMP; the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; U.S. Homeland Security; and U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

My organization also stays current on global trends and patterns to ensure border service officers know about new concealment methods. Officers use a variety of detection tools, techniques, and the latest scientific technology to prevent contraband from entering Canada.

In 2018, the government provided the CBSA with $51.5 million over five years with $7.5 million in ongoing funding to enhance its capacity to take action on guns and gang violence. This funding has allowed the agency to increase its operational capacity to screen passengers, and examine commercial shipments for all contraband, including illegal firearms.

The CBSA firearms strategy focuses on identifying criminal networks and trafficking routes in order to prevent illicit firearms from crossing the border, and to disrupt the smuggling done by criminal networks. It's heavily focused on partnerships, involving law enforcement partners, both domestically and abroad, to keep our communities safe.

In 2021, the CBSA national firearms desk was established. This desk brings together CBSA partners working to combat firearms smuggling in order to maintain a real-time, national border-focused threat picture of illicit firearms in Canada and their movements across our borders.

Our efforts have been paying off. In 2021, over 1,000 firearms and firearm parts were confiscated in 409 seizures. Included in this count were 233 seizures in Ontario, 88 in B.C., and 21 in Quebec.

The work done in Quebec is an example of the CBSA's important collaboration with its federal and provincial partners. The CBSA's Quebec region also works closely with various law enforcement partners across the province to further investigations into illegal cross‑border firearms movements. In February 2021, the arrest by the RCMP of a resident of L'Ancienne‑Lorette, Quebec, along with the seizure of homemade bombs, firearms, silencers, magazines, volumes of ammunition and prohibited weapons, resulted from an initial CBSA intercept and seizure of a prohibited silencer being illegally imported into Canada.

Our officers exercise their professional judgment in a highly complex environment, and are well supported in their training in order to apply these measures. I'm very proud of the work CBSA staff have done, and will continue to do to protect Canadians from the scourge of illegal firearms, and their detrimental effects on our communities.

I'll be happy to answer questions from committee members about this significant issue, regarding the operational and implementation aspects of our activities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.

I now call on Mr. Weber and invite him to make an opening statement of up to five minutes.

[Mark Weber, National President, Customs and Immigration Union]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you here today.

My name is Mark Weber. I'm the national president of the Customs and Immigration Union, which represents personnel working for the CBSA. CIU has a long history of involvement in border security issues on behalf of its members. We're pleased to participate in this panel.

Regarding the matter at hand, I'd like to bring to the committee's attention three areas of particular importance within the scope of border operations. First is long-standing and widespread understaffing at the CBSA. Second is important operational gaps impacting highway, marine and rail modes. Third is the pressing need for increased reliance on CBSA officers' unique expertise, including between ports of entry.

Since the implementation of the 2011 deficit reduction action plan or DRAP, which resulted in a loss of more than a thousand positions at the CBSA, CIU has been vocal about the plan's negative impact on overall operational capabilities. Most ports of entry are chronically understaffed and officers are overworked. With few officers present on the front lines, we believe our ability to effectively intercept smuggled goods such as illegal firearms has been severely affected. While in recent years the agency has expressed its desire to boost recruiting numbers, the situation endures, weakening Canada's border control.

Recently, we've seen the agency commit to a number of initiatives in response to the challenges posed by illegal firearms, including an increased number of detector dog teams, new mobile examination vehicles, equipment, etc. While this is all very positive, it must go hand in hand with adequate staffing numbers. Technology must be used to assist, not to replace, our actual presence in the field.

Beyond staffing problems, there are glaring issues in several modes of operation at the border, which, in the union's opinion, severely undermine Canada's ability to control the flow of illegal firearms.

At the highway level, many CBSA locations have limited hours of operation. CBSA officers are also restricted in their ability to act outside of ports of entry and must rely on other agencies, mainly the RCMP, to address issues related to so-called “port runners” or other criminal activities occurring in-between ports. This slows down our general ability to react in a timely fashion to problematic situations and it weakens the integrity of our border.

More generally speaking.... Excuse me. Sorry, everything just shut down on me. I have a black screen. Just a moment.