Public Safety Committee on Oct. 24th, 2022

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

There you go. I'm not sure that's a promotion.

It's Ms. Damoff followed by Mr. MacGregor.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

No, I don't think we can assume there's going to be extra time available to us. I think everyone seems to be agreeable to doing it during the break week, providing this won't—

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

It would be just one meeting during the break week.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Should we have cross-conversation here, Chair, or what should we be doing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

No, we shouldn't. I guess we should direct things through me and I will try to sort things out.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I think there's agreement to have an additional meeting during the break week.

We have a schedule for this week.

With all due respect to my Conservative colleagues and to Mr. Ellis for saying we have refused to deal with this, both Minister Blair and the commissioner have appeared at the committee on exactly this issue, and the commissioner of the RCMP issued a statement yesterday about the recording—which is only a partial recording, I would add—to say that nothing has changed in her statements. Therefore, to say that no one has been accountable....

They have both appeared before this committee in the past. They have been here. We did make time for them to come.

I read the transcript. I think quite frankly the commissioner is very frustrated with the local RCMP and the lack of communication from the local RCMP during this horrific massacre that occurred. She's frustrated by the way they were dealing with communications from Nova Scotia.

That's obvious, but on the date, Chair, I have suggested that it be following Bill C-21, so I guess maybe, if you want to, we should vote on that and if someone wants to put in an alternate date, then I would be open to that, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. MacGregor followed by Ms. Dancho followed by Mr. Motz.

Mr. MacGregor, go ahead, please.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure I can support the amendment.

I would have a suggestion for alternative wording after a vote, but, with respect to my Liberal colleagues, these are pretty damning quotes when it says, “it was a request that I got from the minister's office”, and then later on when the commissioner is talking about what's going on in the world of handguns and the fact that they're trying to get legislation going and that this legislation is actually to help police.

My ultimate goal with this is not just to focus on the problem. I think we also need to look at solutions. I think part of the problem is the fact that our Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act, in section 5(1), is far too vague and open to interpretation. It just reads that there should be a “Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, to hold office during pleasure, who, under the direction of the Minister, has control and management of the Force”. What does “under the direction of the Minister” mean? What direction is that? That's very open to interpretation. I think this will continually bring us back to this problem. There are provincial jurisdictions in Canada and there are jurisdictions around the world that have attached far greater specificity in their police acts as to what powers a minister has and what powers a police commissioner has, and those two shall never cross.

I hope that through this conversation we get clarification from the minister and the commissioner, and I think they do need to come as quickly as possible, but I also think we, as a committee, have a duty to Canadians to explore how we prevent this from happening in the future. Not exploring that question would be a dereliction of our duty to Canadians. We want to get to the bottom of this and find the truth but we also have to be solution-oriented.

I'll leave it at that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Mr. Motz, go ahead, please.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I move that we adjourn debate on the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

You move to adjourn debate.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

That's debate on the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I think you can only move to adjourn debate—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

You can move to adjourn debate on an amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

—because the debate will carry on as long as anybody wants to speak.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

No. You can adjourn debate—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

What would that do to us?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Why don't we just vote it down?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

If there are no more speakers on the amendment—

[An hon. member]

Let's just go to a vote.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Can you read the amendment out loud again before we go to a vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Go ahead, Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks.

Rather than adjourning, I think we should just vote that down and then look at doing something on a break week.

Alistair, you said you had wording for that.

The amendment was to remove “Thursday, October 27” and replace it with “following consideration of Bill C-21”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Is there any more discussion on the amendment?

Let's go to a vote.