Evidence of meeting #50 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearm.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Has a charter-compliance analysis been done on the amendments to this particular legislation?
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
I believe that on Tuesday I answered the same or a similar question. There was a charter—
Conservative
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
That's okay—me too.
A charter statement was tabled with the bill in June 2022.
With respect to any legislation that the department brings forward, the Minister of Justice has a responsibility to ensure that it is compliant with the charter and in accordance with the Department of Justice Act.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Now my memory has come back, and your answer is almost identical to what it was on Tuesday.
However, my question was whether a charter-compliance analysis has been done specifically on amendment G-4 and then in reference to amendment G-46, because G-4 proposed paragraph (i) talks about the firearms listed in that schedule.
Has a charter-compliance analysis been done on the expansion of Bill C-21?
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Again, for any legislation or motions the government brings forward, any amendments to legislation that are before Parliament, the Minister of Justice is responsible for ensuring compliance with the charter.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Has one been done on the amendments? I am asking because I haven't seen it.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Any analysis that would be done at an official level would be subject to solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidence, in terms of the drafting and advice with respect to motions, etc., on legislation.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Can the Canadian public ever expect a charter-compliance document to be released on the amendments?
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
There is an obligation to release a charter statement with the introduction of a bill only.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
That's rather convenient; don't you think? It is very convenient. We can have a charter-compliance document prepared for a bill, and then we can completely change the bill. This is a firearm-freeze bill or a handgun-freeze bill—that's how it started—and now we're prohibiting hundreds of thousands of previously non-restricted firearms.
The scope has completely changed. We're—
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, the list was made public this morning. To say “hundreds of thousands” does not reflect what was in the list this morning, so let's be clear and stick to facts here.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
There are hundreds of models, but it impacts hundreds of thousands of firearms across this country.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Yes, Chair, but when I'm speaking I would appreciate it if Mr. Motz would let me finish. I'm not interrupting him when he is speaking, so perhaps he would just give me the courtesy and respect of letting me finish my statement.
There are not hundreds of thousands of firearms on the list that was made public today with Mr. Chiang's motion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Ms. Damoff.
I would urge Mr. Motz to recognize the speaker when it's appropriate.
Carry on, please.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you.
Let me rephrase. There are hundreds of thousands of firearms impacted by the hundreds of models listed here. Is that correct?
You guys in Public Safety probably have the firearms reference table memorized—don't you?
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
With respect, my memory is good but not quite that good.
The evergreen definition reflects the government's policy objective of enhancing public safety and ensuring that all assault-style firearms are treated the same in law. The definition captures many firearms that are already prohibited by regulation, but would also be forward-looking and capture ASFs that may come to market in the future.
No list exists that identifies all of the firearms that would be captured only by the proposed definition in proposed paragraph 84(1)(g). However, I'll provide some examples of firearms that are already prohibited in regulations by make and model that would be captured by the proposed qualitative definition. Those include the AR-15 rifle, the Ruger Mini-14 rifle, the CZ858 rifle, the Beretta Cx4 Storm carbine and the Norinco M305 rifle.
I'll also provide some examples of firearms that are prohibited in the regulations by make and model but would not be captured by the proposed qualitative definition. For example, the Armi Jager AP74 is not centrefire. The DPMS A-15 Panther Pump Rifle is not semi-automatic. The Mitchell Arms M16/22 is not centrefire. The Rock River Arms LAR-15 pistol is not a rifle nor a shotgun, and the SIG MCX Rattler Pistol is neither a rifle nor a shotgun.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
I will ask the question in a different way. The order in council from May 2020 prohibited most of the firearms that you have already listed. Is that correct?
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It captured about 1,500 named makes and models.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
There have been hundreds of firearms added to the firearms program in the two and half years since the order in council was put out.
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
As to the criteria that were put out, as they were reviewing the Canadian firearms program and reviewing the firearms reference table, they performed a manual update of that table to reflect the same criteria for identifying firearms that meet those criteria.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
It's interesting that in what you read, which is a department position you have at Public Safety, there's an arbitrary definition that seems to suggest the firearms now being considered for prohibition are somehow military-style assault rifles. Is that true? That's the wording you read to us. There are two or three sentences on that. Can you just reread them for me, please?
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Do you mean the definition that is being proposed in proposed paragraph (g)?
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
No, not in proposed paragraph (g). I have that in front of me. I'm talking about what you just read about your department's position on why you're prohibiting some of these weapons or firearms or why you have them on your list. It's specific to Public Safety.