Public Safety Committee on Dec. 8th, 2022

[Murray Smith]

Yes, it's a database that was created by the RCMP to catalogue firearms with three purposes in mind. One was to assist—this was the original purpose of the firearms reference table—police and officials involved in the firearms administration programs to identify firearms. That was point one. Point two was to create a standardized description of firearms, because for some firearms there's more than one way to describe them. They can have nicknames, so this was to create a standardized way of referring to a firearm. Thirdly, it was to assess the classification of the firearm according to the Canadian Criminal Code matrix.

That database was there to serve three purposes. One purpose is to assist police and officials in identifying firearms. Second, the standardized description was there to assist with the population of tracing requests based on the notion that if you don't properly describe the firearm, you're not likely to get a result out of a data system, so the purpose of creating a standardized description was to improve the chances of getting a hit if a firearm involved in crime was being traced. The third purpose was to assist police with the determination of classification and also officials engaged in the firearms program to determine the classification of a firearm so that the appropriate controls can be applied.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

If we were to specifically talk about the RCMP, how would they use this table?

[Murray Smith]

The table is used administratively. It is not a legal document.

The firearms reference table is not the law. The law resides in the Criminal Code. The firearms reference table represents the RCMP's opinion on what the firearm should be named and what its classification is according to the current rules in the Criminal Code. It is used throughout the RCMP and other police forces across Canada. They use it to identify firearms, so if it is seized by a police officer, then the firearm can be properly identified and recorded in the police data system.

It assists the courts. If the firearm description is standardized, then the description remains the same as the firearm goes through the court system. You don't wind up with continuity problems or other legal issues in court. It's used by administrators in the firearms program to ensure the firearm is properly described and that they are applying the appropriate administrative rules to the firearm.

The classification portion is used likewise by police and officials to ensure that, in the case of policing, it assists with the laying of the appropriate charge, and with the determination of whether an offence has actually occurred or not. On the administrative side, the classification is necessary in order to apply the Firearms Act controls, to ensure that the possessor has the correct firearms licence, with the correct conditions. Some firearms need to be registered. This is a way of identifying which firearms need to be registered as well.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you.

I'm sure there are people at home who are watching this and are riveted by this conversation. There are lots of folks who need to understand some of what is going on here.

You've used the term “classification” a few times now. What are the classifications of firearms that people should know about? Can you explain that?

[Murray Smith]

The Criminal Code has three classifications for firearms—prohibited, restricted and non-restricted.

You will also hear two other categories that, strictly speaking, are not classifications but are widely used as if they were. Those categories are antique firearm and deemed non-firearm, which is like an industrial tool, for example.

The firearms reference table is organized along those lines to represent those categories.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

How do agencies like CBSA use this list to make determinations of what should or should not be allowed in Canada?

[Murray Smith]

The determination as to what is allowed to be imported into Canada is, I believe, shared by officials at Global Affairs Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency. It's their role to determine what crosses the border. Both of those agencies use the firearms reference table to assist them in their decision-making processes.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Who helps to review these classifications?

[Murray Smith]

I'm not sure what you mean by that question, sir.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

As the classifications are made, is there a continuous process of review? Is it static? How do the classifications work?

[Murray Smith]

The firearms reference table is continuously reviewed and updated. As the staff who build the reference table become aware of new firearms, they're added to the table. If there are new variations of existing models, those are added. If it turns out there is some kind of missing or erroneous information in an FRT record, and that becomes known, then there's a process for ensuring that it is corrected.

The firearms reference table process is very much akin to the ISO process, even though it's not ISO-certified. It follows a similar process in that one researcher will be responsible for collecting the information to either create or update an FRT record concerning a particular firearm. Then, a second, independent quality assurance analyst will review that information to ensure that it is accurate and complete before the record is actually published.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

You mentioned that it is not a legal document, per se, but it's used by everyone. What authority does it have? Where does it get its legality from? On what authority are people using this document?

[Murray Smith]

The authority for the firearms reference table comes from the RCMP Act, and it's simply a process that the RCMP has put in place to assist RCMP operations. It was later expanded to assist other police departments and officials in other departments, but, fundamentally, it's simply a police database that was originally developed for police use.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

At the last meeting, we spent a lot of time on this, and you were very helpful in explaining to the committee that paragraphs 1 through 86 had firearms that were prohibited during the 1990s. Now, just for clarity's sake, because there's been a lot of confusion about this, how many different makes and models have been prohibited in Canada since the 1990s?

[Murray Smith]

Again, I'm inferring that you mean by regulations. After the 1990s, the next round of prohibitions occurred in May 2020, when nine families of assault-style firearms were added to the regulations and two categories were added to the regulations, those firearms that produced a muzzle energy greater than 10,000 joules and those firearms that had bore diameters in excess of 20 millimetres.

[Rob Daly, Director, Strategic Policy, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

If I may....

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Again, for the sake of clarity, what is the number? How many were prohibited in the May 2020 order in council and how many predated that?

[Rob Daly]

With respect to makes and models, there were approximately 800 in the 1990s through the regulations. As of May 1, 2020, there are approximately 1,900 makes and models.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Just to be clear, it was 800 from the 1990s. Then was it a further 1,100 or further 1,900?

[Rob Daly]

It was a further 1,900.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Just for clarity's sake, that would capture everything that has happened since the 1990s, new makes and models, etc., that would not have been contemplated in the 1990s because they didn't exist. Is that correct?

[Rob Daly]

I think, if I understand your question correctly, yes. As of today, there are approximately 800 makes and models that were covered by or prohibited by the 1990 regulations. Then there are an additional 1,900 that have now become prohibited based on the May 1 prohibition.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I was doing the math in my head. Those on the list in schedule 2 that were not part of the 1990s prohibition number of 1,900. Is that correct?

[Rob Daly]

Yes.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

What test would have been applied to get these ones added to the list in May 2020? How would they have been added?