Evidence of meeting #63 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was definition.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Shipley.
We'll go now to Ms. Dancho, who will be followed by Mr. Ruff and Mr. Julian.
Ms. Dancho, go ahead.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a couple of things.
On this definition, just so I'm clear, the police have to enforce this. Again, it has been outlined and officials have clarified, but I'm struggling to understand how a police officer would enforce this, assuming that the Liberal government, after three years, does eventually get its confiscation regime going and a number of these firearms are apprehended.
I'm not clear on how an officer is supposed to know if something is newly manufactured. Going back to the car analogy, sometimes a 2022 model and a 2021 model are only a little bit different. Has there been any thought of or discussion with police on how they would determine if a firearm is prohibited? How are they supposed to know that one is newly designed after this comes into force?
Can you elaborate at all? Perhaps it's too abstract. I'm just not clear on this actually being enforceable.
5:05 p.m.
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
If the definition in this legislation were to pass and it were to come into force, then our colleagues at the Canadian firearms program would be updating. As new designs come into the market, they would be updating the FRT, the firearms reference table, and law enforcement relies on the FRT.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
I see. If the manufacturer or someone orders one from the U.S., it would be stopped. The FRT would stop it from coming in or would prohibit it from being sold legally. Is that correct?
5:05 p.m.
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Correct.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Then it's up to the FRT, basically, to know these differences, if something is newly designed versus an older version. The FRT has that responsibility.
5:05 p.m.
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
The FRT is not a person. It's a table. It's a thing.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Right, but it's the people who are responsible for the FRT, I suppose.
5:05 p.m.
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes. It's the Canadian firearms program.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Acting Director General, Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That's right, and colleagues at the Canadian firearms program.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Is that not the case right now, then, with prohibited firearms? Using the FRT, the RCMP does not allow the sale of prohibited models of firearms right now. Is that correct?
5:05 p.m.
Director General, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes, that is correct when the information is captured within the firearms reference table, but currently not all firearms in Canada are captured in the firearms reference table. When they are, yes, we use the specifications to update and create the record.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Why are all not captured right now? Is it that it gets into the market and then it's added to the FRT or...?
5:10 p.m.
Director General, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's based on the classification regime. Currently, we don't have registration for non-restricted firearms. When that registration was removed for non-restricted firearms, there was no mechanism for the consistency of updating the firearms reference table. You will find that we're behind in some of the non-restricted firearms.
As we see them out in businesses, we update. We go to trade shows to try to see what new firearms are entering the market, but it is possible that we do not have all of the firearms within in Canada in the FRT.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Specifically, though, only non-restricted.... The restricted ones would be. Is that right?
5:10 p.m.
Director General, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
There are some instances where there have been some mistakes, where businesses have thought, based on the definition in the Criminal Code, that the firearm met a non-restricted definition, but after our review they were either linked to an OIC, or there were just some errors in that and they actually were restricted or prohibited firearms.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you.
You mentioned that there were a few instances. I'm sorry; I think I've forgotten the word. Did you say a few or many? Does this happen often, or is this a one-off situation?
5:10 p.m.
Director General, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's very difficult to determine. I know that last time we were asked for statistics on that as well, but because there's no mechanism to force the updating or for the businesses to identify to us what firearms are coming into Canada, specifically the non-restricted, I can't say how many errors there are.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Okay, I don't know what happened there. I'm sorry. My connection is unstable. Please let me know if it happens again.
Okay, I think I'm clear on that.
There's one thing I want to understand better. In his announcement of this yesterday, the minister mentioned that he will also require the permanent alteration of long-gun magazines so that they can never hold more than five rounds, and he will ban the sale or transfer of magazines that hold—
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
I have a point of order.
I'm sorry, Raquel. Your sound is very strange. I just want to check with the clerk to make sure the interpreters are still okay because, on my end anyway, it's cutting in and out.