Public Safety Committee on May 11th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Sure. Go ahead on a point of order.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Just very briefly, Chair, Madam Michaud very kindly read what was said, and I certainly will give a commitment. I can't speak on behalf of the minister, but I will certainly speak on behalf of our side of the table and reiterate what the minister said.

Absolutely, we will be doing regulations on the exact issue that Madam Michaud has put forward. It's in the record, and it is absolutely something we're committed to doing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Okay. This is a fairly loose process here. It'll get tighter later.

We will now move on to amendment BQ-9.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Unsurprisingly, amendment BQ-9 is a coordinating amendment concerning cartridge magazines.

I won't repeat what I said before, although I would sort of like to do it anyway. I was surprised that a Conservative member was offended just now about a coordinating amendment concerning cartridge magazines, when the Conservatives voted for all the amendments concerning cartridge magazines and the coordinating amendments yesterday. I hope that this time my colleagues will be consistent with their vote yesterday.

This amendment amends clause 26 so that the act will state consistently that a valid licence is needed for acquiring cartridge magazines, just as is the case for acquiring ammunition and possessing firearms.

I hope my colleagues will vote in favour of the amendment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

Is there any discussion on BQ-9? I am seeing none.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

That takes us to amendment G-43 now in the name of Mr. Noormohamed.

Mr. Noormohamed, would you like to carry on? You're on mute. Try unplugging your headset and plugging it back in. It's IT-101: reboot, unplug it and plug it back in.

Mr. Noormohamed, if you don't mind, I'll get Ms. Damoff to move it for you.

Go ahead.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks, Chair. Let me just check my handy list.

Indeed it is another “firearm part” coordinating amendment to continue the good work that we were doing last night to make sure that all parts of what we're doing in Bill C-21 are complying with other acts. This is to do with ghost guns, and let's vote yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Is there any discussion on this amendment?

Mr. Shipley, go ahead.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you.

We have talked about ghost guns a lot, and I'm just getting back up to speed tonight, Ms. Damoff.

Maybe the officials could tell me what this amendment would do in real life. How would this assist, going forward?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Thank you very much for the question.

This motion would impose a requirement on individuals to have a valid firearms licence to import a firearm part. It specifies that an individual must, at the time of importation, have a valid firearms licence. It must be presented to a customs officer in order to import the firearm part, and the licence must be shown to a customs officer.

It would create a limited exemption to proposed subsection 38(1) for non-residents of at least 18 years of age if they declare the firearm part to a customs officer in the prescribed manner—and that's through a form and information—and a confirmed declaration would have the same effect as a valid licence for the purpose of importing a firearm part.

I will remind you that “firearm part” was defined in an earlier motion as a barrel or a handgun slide.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Therefore, this amendment only pertains to bringing it across the border then. Is that correct?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Yes.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Would you be able to give me an example of how this amendment would function in real life?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Sure. For example, somebody is going to the United States, and when they are there they go and buy a handgun barrel as a part. For example, they have maybe a specialized firearm, and they need a barrel. As they come across the border they would declare, “I am bringing in a handgun barrel”, in the same way that if you bring firearms into Canada you must declare them upon entry into Canada. You would show that you have a valid PAL, your licence. The customs officer would note it, and you would enter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Are you finished?

Mr. Perkins, go ahead.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Going further on Mr. Shipley's question, is it only when you physically go across the border? What if you're ordering online or by mail? Could you describe how that works?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

The same would apply if you apply by mail. When you go to pick it up, anything that you require a permit for.... Let's say you were ordering a firearm online. When you were to go and pick it up, you would have to show your firearms licence. You would have to confirm that you have a valid firearms licence in order to pick up your firearm. It's in the same way.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Are the courier companies where you would pick this up trained to ask that? Do you do any spot audits of compliance? I was in the retail business for many years. We'd do what's called mystery shopping against standards. Do you do that in this case in order to ensure compliance?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

This would be up to our colleagues at the Canada Border Services Agency to apply, and they would apply the same process as they do for the importation of firearms in terms of verifying that people have a valid licence. It would extend to firearms parts that are defined as barrels and handgun slides.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You haven't seen any reports in the past to show the effectiveness of this type of thing, or that they are or aren't complying when they come in now.

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

I can't comment on the questions of compliance or non-compliance with the CBSA. I can tell you how it would be applied generally, and it would be the same process as for firearms.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Tochor, you have one minute.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our fellow members here. I've been watching online, and this is my first availability to make it down to the committee.

This amendment talks about the border, and that's seemingly a big focus of trying to stop illegal firearms and parts. Would this stop any illegal activity at the border?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

With regard to the trafficking of firearms and measures that are included in the bill, I will refer to materials that are available online with regard to measures that are going to strengthen with regard to trafficking.

However, this specific motion has to do with addressing certain firearm parts that go into the manufacturing of illegal firearms or ghost guns—these are the parts that people don't necessarily make with a 3-D printer; they will go and buy these parts—and trying to prevent their entry into Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Tochor.

Is there any further discussion on this amendment? Seeing none, I will call the vote.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 26 as amended agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

(On clause 31)

We are now back to clause 31. We have clause 31, clause 32 and clause 33. We don't have amendments for any these, I believe.

Is it the will of the committee to adopt all three clauses at one time? No. Okay.

Shall clause 31 carry?

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Are we going to have a chance to talk about this one?