Public Safety Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, in the room, we have Mr. Melillo.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Go ahead, Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We have a few folks who want to speak to this, so I would actually echo Mr. McKinnon's point of order and say that it would be time to allow our witnesses to leave and thank them for their testimony.

I do want to speak to the amendment that Mr. Lloyd has put forward. I think it's very important. Obviously the government is moving forward with an unprecedented action that we're seeing right now and it would be of great benefit to this committee to have additional opportunity for accountability and looking at what the role is going to be for the OPP in Windsor and in Ottawa and what we're seeing across the province.

I'm in favour of the motion that the NDP has put forward, but I believe the amendment Mr. Lloyd is suggesting is incredibly reasonable and very important right now, given the circumstances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Are there other hands up in the room?

[The Clerk]

Mr. Van Popta, and then Mr. Shipley.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

That's good. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Sorry. I'm going to make the decision to thank our witnesses. There just won't be any more time left. I regret that, but those are the rules that constrain us all.

Witnesses, thank you very much for your insight. It has been very emotional, very important and very impactful, so thank you very much for that.

Now let's move to the hands up in the room.

Clerk, go with those that you see, please.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Van Popta.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Clerk; and thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to speak in favour of the amendment that the OPP be added to the study. It's very important for this public safety committee to come to an understanding of how we got to this point where our government made the unprecedented decision to invoke the Emergencies Act. I want to hear from the various police forces involved here, particularly in the province of Ontario, about how we came to that point. To what extent were the OPP and the RCMP and the city police working together, and the CBSA, who are also part of this study, and how could we improve that? What could have been done better?

It's really important for us to come to a better understanding of that issue in particular, but also how we came to this point where the government has decided to call it an emergency and take these unprecedented steps.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you.

Clerk, are there other hands up in the room?

[The Clerk]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Mr. Shipley is next.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Mr. Shipley, go ahead.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I'll be supporting wholeheartedly this amendment put forward by my colleague Mr. Lloyd. The OPP would be a great service to add to this discussion that we've been having. They are the largest police service in Ontario. A lot of these incidents that have happened over the last few weeks have been in Ontario and it would be hugely remiss of us not include them in our study.

They also would bring a lot of background information from different and past incidents that might help us to figure out how we got here today, and they might have some insights on what could have been done better and moving forward.

I definitely would agree with the amendment of adding the OPP. It would be very important to have them here. They are a large service, doing the entire province of Ontario and bringing a wealth of information, both from current and past events. I definitely support bringing them to some studies on this and I look forward to meeting them, so I'll be supporting that amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you.

Mr. McKinnon, do I see your hand up?

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm very interested in hearing from the OPP. I think they have a very useful perspective on this, so I will support that amendment. However, I go back to the fundamental problem I have with doing it at this time. Because it is an ongoing matter, people are not going to be able to speak freely to it at this time.

I want to comment further on Mr. Van Popta's remarks about the need to examine how we got to this point. I think that's also a very important question. However, that is precisely the role of the parliamentary committee that we are required to create as a consequence of invoking the Emergencies Act. A parliamentary committee must be struck to examine and consider the aspects that Mr. Van Popta brought forward.

I will support the amendment, but ultimately I will not support the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Are there any other hands up, or can we go to a vote?

[The Clerk]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Madame Michaud is next.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Madame Michaud, go ahead.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will be brief. I think that this is an interesting addition to the study, given that Ontario Provincial Police officers have been on the front lines since the beginning of this crisis. I am therefore in favour of this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Are there other hands up?

[The Clerk]

We have Mr. Chiang.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Mr. Chiang, go ahead.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In my experience as a police officer in the past, the police will not be able to speak much about the operational issues and what's happening right now because it's an ongoing operation and an ongoing situation in Canada. My experience is that they will give us the bare bones of what they are doing.

I support the motion about having the OPP join us on this thing, but in terms of the police talking about stuff.... After every operation, they do an after-action report to see where they fell short, what they did wrong and what they did right. Once that report is completed, they will be able to talk to us more about what they did and what they didn't do properly. My suggestion is to delay it. That would be best, instead of calling them right now to come in to testify.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Mr. Clerk, are there any other hands up in the room? I don't see any on the screen.

[The Clerk]

Yes. We have Mr. Van Popta.