Public Safety Committee on Nov. 25th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You have two more minutes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

A concern has been raised to me. A vehicle purchase is sometimes people's largest purchase next to their home. When people discover that their vehicle is not legally theirs, some desperate people might do fraudulent things, such as say that their vehicle got stolen. Is that a concern of the Insurance Bureau?

As products come out, as in CARFAX's report that has just come out about these cloned VINs, could we see a rise in increased auto fraud in relation to these stolen vehicles? What is the Insurance Bureau recommending to combat that?

[Liam McGuinty]

It's possible that this could be a result. You are seeing an increase in auto fraud across Canada, and frankly, as you've seen a decrease in auto theft, the same kinds of criminals who committed it are looking for other opportunities to make a buck. Ultimately, the consumer needs to undertake full due diligence. There are services available through provincial governments, no matter where you are in Canada. They allow you to verify the VIN. There are also private services—you've referenced one of them—that allow you to do that. Our job, along with Équité Association, which is funded by the insurance industry and whose mandate is to combat auto insurance crime, is to share information about what you can do to protect yourself from auto theft and from fraud.

I think there's more work to do there, but we're encouraged by what we've seen on the auto theft component in the last year or so.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

I noted that you said there has been a decline in the number of vehicles reported stolen, but has the insurance industry seen a reduction in the financial losses from stolen vehicles?

[Liam McGuinty]

Marginally it has. We reached $1.5 billion in auto insurance theft claims in 2023. It's gone down to something like $1.3 billion, but over at—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

You said that auto thefts have gone down significantly in the last two years. Why haven't the financial claims gone down?

[Liam McGuinty]

It's the value. The value has gone way up. Over the last 10 years, the value of auto theft claims is 400% higher.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

The number of vehicles have gone down, but the cost of the claims has not gone down. It's gone up proportionally per vehicle.

[Liam McGuinty]

Well, to be clear, over the last couple of years, you've seen a decrease in both the value and the volume. Over the long run, though, the value of auto theft claims is significantly up. It's 400% up over the last 10 years.

The reality is that the cars being stolen are much more expensive now than they were previously. This isn't about folks stealing cars for joyrides. This is about targeting luxury SUVs and trucks because of the value they hold in the market.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

When luxury vehicles are stolen, does that increase the premiums of poor people's vehicles—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry, MP Lloyd. I apologize for interrupting you abruptly, but we need to move on to MP Dandurand for six minutes.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the two witnesses for being with us today to talk to us about the scourge of vehicle theft. However, I understand that the measures put in place have improved the situation over the past year, so that's excellent news.

Mr. Kingston, since we've been talking about data sharing, I'd like to know what kind of data held by manufacturers could be shared with the government or police authorities to reduce this problem.

Does Bill C‑12 address the kind of information you have that could be useful to share in order to reduce vehicle theft?

[Brian Kingston]

There is a lot of record sharing between auto manufacturers and local police forces. There's also a lot of activity that occurs where they try to coordinate on vehicle safety systems, ultimately targeting some of these groups. With that being said, it is done on a very regional basis, and that was one of the challenges that we found. Manufacturers may be working with one local police force that was deeply involved in this, but there wasn't necessarily sharing occurring at the national level, for example.

Bill C-12 doesn't necessarily address that. However, the situation has improved dramatically because this became such a pressing issue for all involved. We are seeing better information sharing among municipal, provincial and federal governments, but there's always more to do.

The VINing question is a great example of that. We didn't have a coordinated approach on VINing, and different provinces had different approaches to it. It's not perfect, but it's getting better.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Can you describe in more detail the kind of information you have that could be useful to law enforcement? We know that our cars are being increasingly tracked through various safety systems. In the best cases of information sharing between police forces and manufacturers, what kind of information is shared?

[Brian Kingston]

It's largely case by case because what you'll see a manufacturer do, if they're coordinating with a local law enforcement agency, is try to find out how a vehicle security system was overcome, what was used to do it, and then find out what could possibly be done to avoid that in the future.

It very much is case by case, and these crime groups are very sophisticated. They're using different methods all the time. However, there is a benefit to sharing some of that information amongst law enforcement agencies so that they can understand what to look for, and of course, sharing it with auto manufacturers so that they can figure out what happened and why the vehicle was stolen in the first place.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Would you say there is collaboration between the various manufacturers to share information on theft techniques in order to reduce this scourge and increase vehicle safety?

[Brian Kingston]

That does occur. We don't have a formal structure for that type of information sharing, although the industry is regularly engaged with Transport Canada, which is responsible for the regulations regarding vehicle immobilizer systems, for example. There are venues for this type of information to be exchanged. I think there's probably room for improvement, though, just to make sure that everybody is responding to the most up-to-date information and the most up-to-date techniques that these groups are using.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you. I invite you to create and formalize these exchanges. It can only benefit everyone.

Mr. McGuinty, I come from an area where there are no major urban centres. Based on your analysis of the data, is there a difference between vehicle thefts in urban areas and those in peri-urban or rural areas?

[Liam McGuinty]

Definitely.

This is a problem that has mostly targeted our larger cities. Frankly, Montreal and the GTA have been hot spots for auto theft. In part, that's because of their proximity to the port of Montreal.

You still see significant rates of theft in our urban centres, but that's not to say there isn't theft happening in our rural centres as well.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Do vehicles stolen in large urban centres and those stolen in rural areas have the same final destination? I imagine that vehicles stolen in the regions are more likely to be resold in Canada. Is that the case? Is that a trend we're seeing?

[Liam McGuinty]

That might be a better question for law enforcement.

What I can say, from what we've heard, is that in Ontario and Quebec, which have been bearing the brunt of the auto theft crisis for the last several years, a lot of those cars are destined for export. A lot of them are making their way up the 401, if you're in Ontario, toward the port of Montreal. That's not always the case, but it has certainly been a commonality among the thefts we've seen in central Canada.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Is there also information sharing to reduce the scourge? Does Bill C‑12 provide a good framework or a better framework for information sharing?

[Liam McGuinty]

Absolutely.

One of the things our members did is offer anonymized VINs to car manufacturers in case it was useful in informing product design. We incurred that cost as an industry in the spirit of making sure that we can help create cars that are less likely to be stolen.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Kingston, we know that there are thieves who tamper with vehicle identification numbers. Are there ways for manufacturers to prevent this?

[Brian Kingston]

Not necessarily. You would be amazed by how much time, energy and resources these groups put into overcoming systems.

Companies have tried to make it more challenging for a VIN to be removed or replaced on a vehicle, but there have been situations where a vehicle was recovered and law enforcement found that this organized crime operation had a full VIN manufacturing facility where it was replacing the VIN with a highly convincing new VIN.

You have to always try to stay one step ahead, but I wouldn't underestimate the money and resources these groups put into replacing VINs.