Public Safety Committee on Dec. 9th, 2025

[Brian Sauvé]

Integration works. Whether we're talking about municipal, provincial and federal police services working together on a priority, or if we identify that border security and immigration are an issue, the two agencies responsible for the border in Canada, the RCMP and CBSA, should integrate themselves with respect to inland enforcement as well as deportation, should that be deemed necessary.

It works. You have teams sharing information, very much like we are here. We can all be on the same page and know what's going on with our priorities, our targets and our tasks. It just works, versus having intelligence silos where one particular agency—it could be a municipal or provincial police service or the RCMP—have their intelligence silo, and perhaps they share information, but then they consider whether they need to redact it for privacy considerations because it's going to a different agency. How did they collect that information?

That's where you end up with gaps. Is CBSA sharing information with CSIS? Is CSIS sharing information with the RCMP? Is RCMP sharing information with that triangle? Is that information actionable intelligence? Is it unvetted? Is everybody operating on the same page? Integration works.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I don't mean to question what you're saying. I completely agree with you that better coordination and better integration would certainly assist. I think all of us can agree on that.

My question is this: I'll get into intelligence sharing, but to the extent that there is coordination, how is that coordination taking place, and how can we improve that so we have enhanced coordination and police officers can do a more effective job?

[Brian Sauvé]

That was my misunderstanding. I apologize.

The example I gave is the RCMP-led extortion task force, which is up and running in British Columbia right now. The RCMP is leading it, using its major crime model. You have a number of seconded CBSA officers in there, and you have some municipal police services, such as the Abbotsford and Surrey police departments, working in there, and it is working extremely well.

From that perspective, the lesson we can learn is when that works and as it works, whether it's a combination of a provincial and a federally funded agency or otherwise, let's expand on that and move it to higher-priority areas or high-threat areas, whether they be Toronto, Montreal, Halifax, Calgary, etc., so that when we see something is working well, we can make it a fully functioning unit.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

You would advise that we use the same model that is being used currently for extortion.

[Brian Sauvé]

Yes, I'd advise a similar one.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

That's about people going on secondment and working very closely together.

[Brian Sauvé]

Yes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Now we'll go to the next issue that you have identified, which is information sharing.

In your testimony, you said that there are some safeguards, and those safeguards are there for privacy considerations. More specifically, if we are to make recommendations, what are some of those specific safeguards that you think we can possibly do away with?

[Brian Sauvé]

One of the challenges and what I was alluding to in my opening remarks was that when they aren't working in the same room together, there are challenges with the sharing of information, due to privacy considerations. That's when you end up with those silos that are not necessarily sharing a fulsome intelligence report with another agency. If they're all in the same room, coordinated and integrated, then the intelligence and actionable material that they receive is received by the entire team, all the agencies working together.

Those are the challenges that we see with information sharing between agencies outside of coordination or integration.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

As long as they essentially work in close proximity to each other, hand in glove, it's not a concern, whereas, if they have to use channels of communication, then that prohibits better information sharing.

[Brian Sauvé]

It does.

My experience with integrated teams is that everyone comes into one standard. For example, CBSA, Abbotsford Police or Vancouver Police will come into an RCMP team, and they will work under the RCMP standard. That means everybody is working to the same security classifications, etc.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

It's all about integrating those teams.

[Brian Sauvé]

It is, yes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Thank you, Mr. Ehsassi.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Mr. Sauvé, the committee heard from representatives of the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, before your appearance. We asked them how many officers were assigned to removals at the CBSA. We were told that there were 350 of them and that about 200 investigators could take part in the investigations.

On your end, do you know if the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP, has a set number of officers assigned to the border services removal team?

[Brian Sauvé]

That's a question for the RCMP. I'm not sure of the exact number of RCMP members in that role.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

You may not know the number, but do you know if there's a specialized team somewhere in Canada that supports officers assigned to removals?

[Brian Sauvé]

An extortion task force has been set up in British Columbia. That's the only team assigned to the immigration program. There's also the integrated border enforcement team, whose membership has fluctuated over the years based on various security priorities. Since security is a high priority for the government these days, the team has grown. Those teams deal with border security for arrivals to Canada, not for departures.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

The RCMP can't tell us whether there's a special team that assists officers assigned to removals or investigators, then. Maybe we'll ask the commissioner.

In southern Quebec, where I'm an MP, there are a lot of illegal crossings. An active criminal network helps immigrants illegally cross from Canada into the United States or from the United States into Canada. We know that there's an integrated team in that region, where the Sûreté du Québec, the RCMP and the CBSA are working together to try to get their hands on that network.

Am I mistaken?

[Brian Sauvé]

No. There's indeed an integrated team that ensures security at the border. Its mandate isn't only to enforce the law within the country, but also to ensure border security for people who enter Canada illegally. It also handles human trafficking from the United States into Canada.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

A smuggler was recently charged and has been incarcerated for 75 days. He was sentenced and will be imprisoned for four months. That person entered Canada illegally, is incarcerated and will serve his sentence.

For the people listening to us, can you explain to us what will happen when he gets out of prison? If I understand correctly, your job was to help the Canada Border Services Agency arrest that person and put him in prison. After his time in prison, will you also have any responsibility in that matter? Will all the responsibility lie with the agency?

[Brian Sauvé]

After that, it's the responsibility of the agency, but also of the Correctional Service of Canada. It depends on the length of the sentence. The responsibility then lies with Quebec, first the Sûreté du Québec and then Quebec's municipal police services.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

This national, who is an illegal immigrant, is currently imprisoned for four months. After his time in prison, will the Sûreté du Québec, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or the Canada Border Services Agency take over to ensure that he leaves the country?

[Brian Sauvé]

When he gets out of prison, it will be up to the agency.