Public Safety Committee on Jan. 27th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I now call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. I welcome you to this first meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security in 2026. On behalf of everyone, I would like to wish a happy new year 2026, filled with peace, happiness and good health to all those in this room and those listening to us via video conference.

This is meeting number 20 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. Pursuant to the House order of reference of October 3, 2025, the committee is meeting today on its study of Bill C‑8, an act respecting cyber security, amending the Telecommunications Act and making related amendments to other acts.

I would now like to welcome the Minister of Industry and the officials who have kindly agreed to attend this meeting.

I invite you, Minister Joly, to make your statement.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, colleagues, and I wish you all a happy new year as well.

I am here today to talk to you about Bill C‑8, an act respecting cyber security, amending the Telecommunications Act and making related amendments to other acts. This bill has already been passed by the House of Commons and sent to the Senate in 2024. I am here, in good faith, to continue this essential work. This bill deals with something that Canadians depend on every day: our telecommunications networks.

Our telecommunications networks connect Canadians and support our economy. The growth of the digital economy, particularly through 5G networks, could add up to $112 billion to the Canadian economy by 2035. This is a great opportunity, and we have a responsibility to protect it.

With greater connectivity comes greater exposure. Cyber-threats are more sophisticated, more aggressive and borderless. Canadian businesses lose more than $5 billion every year due to cybersecurity incidents. This is a massive cost to our economy, our competitiveness and the jobs Canadians rely on.

If we want Canadians to trust these systems, and if we want businesses to continue investing and innovating, our infrastructure must be strong, secure and resilient. This is exactly what Bill C-8 does. Bill C-8 modernizes the Telecommunications Act by making security a core objective. It gives the government targeted and practical tools to act when there are serious risks to networks. It requires consultation with affected parties before any order is issued, ensuring transparency and collaboration.

At the same time, it is important to be clear about what this bill does not do. It does not allow the government to shut down services for individuals. It does not allow the interception of private communications. Infrastructure security is not freedom of speech. This bill is about protecting networks, not regulating expression or ideas.

Bill C-8 includes strong safeguards, and the government is accountable to Parliament. We will ensure that the bill is explicit in affirming Parliament's ongoing oversight of these powers. There is robust parliamentary oversight. NSIRA and NSICOP play a vital role in reviewing national security activities, and this legislation fully respects that framework.

Telecommunications networks are essential to the security, prosperity and well-being of Canadians. Bill C‑8 allows the government to protect them in a responsible and targeted manner, under rigorous oversight. We will continue to work to keep Canadians safe and well connected.

With that, I am ready to take your questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now move on to the first round of questions, starting with Mr. Caputo for six minutes.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and welcome.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

This act, I think we can agree, confers tremendous powers to the minister and the Governor in Council. We can agree on that, I take it.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It's an important responsibility, and that's why there's parliamentary oversight.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Okay.

Parliamentary oversight happens after the fact, after a decision is made. Then Parliament looks at things. We know how that sometimes goes, because if the wrong decision is made, we try to repair it after the fact.

What I'm going to ask you, Minister, is this: Why wouldn't we have judicial oversight, a judicial authorization at the front end, whenever you—or the government—wish to take action, as in proposed section 15.2, to ensure that the government isn't breaking the law? Would you not support that, rather than looking at something after the fact to see if we got it right?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I hear you. The goal is definitely to make sure that the government can act, particularly in times of national security when urgency is required, and that it is part of our intelligence system, but we already have NSICOP and NSIRA doing that work.

I must say, having dealt with a lot of security issues in my former role, I think this is an important power given to the Minister of Industry—

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

It's a tremendous power.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

—that we don't take lightly.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I understand that.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

At the same time, dear colleague, I would just like—

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Minister, I'm sorry. We have only a few minutes.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

What preoccupies me right now is.... We passed this bill.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I understand that, but I'm not asking you—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We already passed this bill in the past.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry. I have to stop both of you.

I think we all understand that we cannot speak at the same time as others. Otherwise, it is absolutely impossible for the interpreters to do their job and very difficult for everyone to follow the discussion.

Please continue.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I'm not trying to interrupt you, Minister. I have only four minutes and we have a lot to get through, so please do not take it personally if I interject.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No, I don't.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Here's the thing: Everything you've discussed is after the fact.

You talk about robust oversight with NSICOP. There is a principle in law called exigency, as in when a warrant or judicial authorization can't be obtained. That's different. In some instances, a judge would have the time and the evidence, and warrants are often obtained within a few hours.

Rather than having the minister exercise unfettered discretion over such broad powers, would you not agree that we should have judicial authorization and an independent judge should be the one making the decision, where we can do that?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

If the committee comes up with amendments, of course we will study them. Our goal is always to make sure that we get to the right balance, because it's really important that the powers of a given minister in given circumstances have guardrails. I think it's important.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I understand that.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

At the same time, this must fit within the overall Telecommunications Act infrastructure, which is also in line with the CRTC, etc. We would need to make sure that it fits, and that's why, in the circumstances, this was proposed.

Kasi, do you want to add anything?

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I would like to restrict my questions to you, Minister, with all due respect. We can ask the officials afterwards. I have two and a half minutes left with you.

Again, I don't understand. I don't think I'm being obtuse or anything. Why wouldn't we have an independent judge decide whether there is evidence for you to wield these significant, virtually unprecedented powers? Why wouldn't we give them over to a judge, Minister?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Listen, I don't think they're unprecedented powers, Frank. I'm sorry. I think it's an important bill and it's about making sure that we can protect our critical infrastructure. We've already had unanimous consent for it.

We have a model right now that is based on a voluntary approach for telecommunications service providers that doesn't hold, because right now, we have policy statements on national security that are voluntary. It would make sense to give these powers and to make sure that telecommunications companies abide by them.

By the way, I must say—

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I'm sorry. I have one—