Public Safety Committee on Jan. 27th, 2026

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Sometimes it seems like we're talking out of both sides: One minute we're allies with China, and the next minute we're not, so excuse my question.

The Liberal government assured Canadians that invoking the Emergencies Act complied with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The courts have since ruled—twice—that the government violated the charter and failed to meet the legal threshold. Do you regret voting for and enacting the Emergencies Act?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

We have 10 seconds.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Yes or no?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I think this is a question that is before the courts—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Do you regret it, yes or no?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry, but this is all the time we have.

Mr. Ramsay, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Thank you very much, Minister, for being here. I appreciate that.

Minister, industry representatives who appeared before this committee told us that they were concerned about having to make major investments as a result of the recommendations on telecommunications security. They suggested that an amendment be made to Bill C‑8 that would allow for discretionary compensation. We know what discretionary compensation is worth: not much.

At this point, I would be satisfied to know that the Minister of Industry is perhaps open to the idea of such a possibility, because all kinds of programs are moving in that direction.

Is that something you could consider at some point if major investments were indeed necessary?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I would say that most of the investment that will be needed in the circumstances will come from the telecom companies themselves. It's in their own self-interest to make these investments.

I think our role as a government is to explain what needs to be done to protect citizens. We will therefore be moving forward with Bill C‑8. That's why we're introducing it.

At the same time, I think that, knowing this, companies have to make the necessary investments, because they can't compromise the security of their operations or the data of their customers or stakeholders they do business with.

I think we're in an increasingly digital world, where security can't be taken for granted. Under the circumstances, I expect the business community to do its job.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Basically, you're telling us that the cost of not investing could be higher than the cost of investing.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I would use the English expression:

It's part of the cost of doing business.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

You briefly mentioned harmonizing standards. We understand that, with the provinces and other international organizations, all kinds of standards will apply. We understand that they may not be necessary to include them in the legislation. I hope that one day these standards will be included in regulations.

At this point, I would once again be satisfied with your opinion on a statement that you are going to try to reduce red tape and unnecessary regulations in order to harmonize things with other provinces and internationally, as far as possible.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It's a constant frustration. I see it. Ms. McMicking is aware of it. The team at the Department of Industry is aware of it. I think there's still far too much red tape, and we need to do even more to reduce it. It's a problem. Things need to move faster, because the American economic threat is real. Whether it's to protect the telecommunications sector or other economic sectors, including steel, aluminum and the entire automotive sector—in other words all sectors that can be subject to tariffs—our decisions need to be made more quickly.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

You told us that all the other Five Eyes countries—New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Australia and the United States—already have similar legislation. I think that's reassuring. We can assume that Canada probably needs this kind of legislation as well.

I'm sure you've reviewed the legislation of these other countries. Are you convinced that Bill C‑8 will achieve its objectives and that it may even be better because it has the benefit of being improved upon later?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

This bill is extremely necessary. We're behind, that's the reality. We introduced a protection policy in 2022 that was basically voluntary in nature. The government doesn't currently have the power to impose it more strictly on telecom companies with regard to telecommunications equipment within their networks that could jeopardize the security of Canadians' telecommunications networks. It makes no sense.

So I understand the debate. It's important. Honestly, we need to pass this bill quickly. That's what I think. The sense of urgency should be shared, in my opinion. I certainly feel it, and I hope all members around the table feel it too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to your last intervention, Mrs. DeBellefeuille. You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Minister, I want to return to the parliamentary secretary's request, namely, to hear you say that you will make every effort to avoid overlap between the provinces and territories, in accordance with and in line with the very high standards that exist.

We're talking about NERC, the North American Electric Reliability Corporation. I'd like to hear it, too. It would reassure me. What's in the regulatory part is one thing, but when an intention is expressed more formally in a bill, it's even more reassuring.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'll give you some real-life examples.

For example, when a huge cyber-incident affected the Newfoundland health care system and really affected the telecommunications system and data, the government could have worked even more closely with the telecom companies. We did so from a federal-provincial perspective to provide support and even transfer funds to help resolve the issue. We did the same for the Northwest Territories, because there were cybersecurity issues there as well.

When an incident affects the cybersecurity of a provincial government, its agencies or a company, the Department of Industry isn't the only one to respond. Several of us respond at the same time. This often involves security agencies and us. We work with the local government. So we adapt to the situation.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Minister, the bill refers to fines and penalties. Electricity Canada's concern is whether Hydro-Québec could be doubly penalized. There's some confusion, especially on the issue of fines.

In closing, let me say this. You said earlier that the major telecom companies have a responsibility to equip themselves to deal with cyber-threats. I think you know that in Quebec, there are small Internet providers, co-operatives, that often operate in rural areas that were of no interest to large providers such as Bell Canada, to name just one.

We're a little concerned. How will they be able to afford to meet the new requirements? Do you have any thoughts on these small suppliers?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Yes, I do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

There are about 15 seconds left, Minister.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Absolutely, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.

With regard to matters relating to respect for jurisdictions, my goal is and always will be to respect federal and provincial jurisdictions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

We've used up all the time allotted.

Thank you very much, Minister Joly, not only for preparing for your appearance, but also for being here today.

We will suspend the meeting for a few moments to give you time to leave, and so that the officials can get settled for the next part.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I call the meeting back to order.

Before giving the floor to committee members, I would like to quickly introduce the people who are before us.

We have Mr. Arbour, director general, telecommunications and Internet policy branch; and Ms. Kwan, director general, spectrum and telecommunications sector. Both are from the Department of Industry.

We have quorum, so we'll start with Mr. Lloyd.

Mr. Lloyd, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

It's good to have officials back here today.

Here is my first question. Can you confirm whether the government currently has the technical authority to force telecom providers to remove hardware—for example, Huawei hardware—from their telecommunications systems at this time?

[Andre Arbour]

No, it does not. The policy currently in place is a voluntary policy, and the policy further stipulates the government's intent to introduce legislation to implement it. That led to the tabling of Bill C-26 and now Bill C-8.