Public Safety Committee on Feb. 12th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Very good. Thank you so much.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille for six minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sauvé, today we are analyzing a few clauses in Bill C‑15; however, as you are no doubt aware, the budget implementation bill contains nearly 600 clauses covering all kinds of topics. Today, we are examining a few clauses that mainly affect the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act. It affects other members too.

I understand from reading another brief that, apart from RCMP officers, there were also civilian members prior to 2016. They will also be affected if these clauses pass without amendment. I am thinking of disability pensions that existed before 2016, based on the rules in effect at that time.

Could you tell us more about this? If this passes, the lives of civilian members would change, since their pensions would be reduced.

[Brian Sauvé]

That is undoubtedly true. However, the RCMP still has civilian members, although none have joined since 2016. I think there are approximately 2,400 civilian members. The same superannuation plan applies to both civilian and regular members of the RCMP.

All the changes we are discussing here affect not only regular members of the RCMP, but also civilian members, and even officers.

I'm doing advocacy for the officers for management.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

I spoke with some RCMP officers. In Valleyfield, managing the borders is very time-consuming because our riding is located in southern Quebec. Whether you talk to managers, senior officers, or officers, it's the same struggle. Currently, the government wants to reduce retirement benefits. It wants to have a negative impact on pensions, especially for those individuals who are eligible for disability benefits.

To my knowledge, people who are already receiving disability benefits and who have unfortunately had to leave their jobs because they are no longer able to work have organized their finances based on a predictable income. The change will mean that their disability income will decrease overnight as of January 1.

Have I understood correctly?

[Brian Sauvé]

Income will not decrease on January 1. The indexation will change going forward. It will be based solely on the consumer price index, or CPI, and not on the higher of the CPI and a calculation based on the salaries of certain groups in the federal public service. The annual inflation-based increase may decrease.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Even so, we know that a disabled person who has been unable to continue their career expects to receive, on average, an increase of around 2.5% per year. Depending on the assessment, the increase could be reduced to 0.5%, which is a significant amount for a disabled person. They have to forego this income, which was nevertheless predictable over time.

I am quite struck by the fact that the rules of the game are being changed for people, for professionals with disabilities. I do not understand why the government is making this change, unless it is to save money at the expense of people with disabilities. That is my interpretation of the situation.

I saw in a document that there would be savings of about $5.8 billion over four years. It's funny, that is about the same as the $5 billion in cost overruns for a single software program to manage old age security. I have to say, I find it a little strange that the numbers align.

As a social worker, I am also concerned about information sharing. You said it in English, but I would like to hear you say it in French. When a person with a disability has their application reviewed by the RCMP health services, it is forwarded to Veterans Affairs Canada, which also reviews it. The department makes a diagnosis, estimates the percentage of compensation, and communicates it. There is a kind of firewall, a security measure. There is not a great deal of information sharing. I am struck by the fact that the government really wants to intervene in this area.

In your opinion, what is the government trying to achieve by sharing this information? I do not understand the rationale behind this decision.

[Brian Sauvé]

Personally, I am also not convinced about the rationale behind this. I just have my suspicions, if you can call them that.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Let's call them assumptions.

[Brian Sauvé]

My assumption is that the RCMP, or the RCMP's occupational health and safety unit of the RCMP, does not understand the reality that individuals with a disability face. The RCMP thinks, for example, that because I have PTSD, it needs to put me in a bubble so I am not retraumatized.

However, it does not take into consideration the fact that I already live in a bubble, because I am being treated by a psychologist. I had the opportunity to learn how to work with PTSD.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

If they discovered that you are very—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, I am sorry to interrupt you.

It breaks my heart to do this, but I must give Mr. Au the floor for five minutes.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Once again, thank you, Mr. Sauvé, for coming to make your presentation.

I echo what's been said by my colleagues. Our hearts are with the community in Tumbler Ridge. Also, we would like to convey our thanks to the first responders, including the RCMP officers. It's really impressive that, as it's been reported, the RCMP officers arrived in two minutes. I can also imagine that when they arrived and saw what was happening, it could have been some kind of a shock and a difficult experience for them.

As a person with a background in mental health service, I am concerned about what you said in the opening remarks that about 50% of officers in the police force received some kind of a disability pension or allowance. To me, this is a very large number.

Have you seen an increase or has it always been the case like that? Is it quite a stable number or have there been some changes over time?

[Brian Sauvé]

For disability benefit applications?

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Yes.

[Brian Sauvé]

Early in my service, when I started 20-plus years ago, the members of the RCMP—and I will say Veterans Affairs Canada is a victim of its own success—were probably not broadly aware of the benefits available to them through Veterans Affairs Canada. About 12 years ago, it went on a marketing campaign in partnership with the RCMP. You saw the development of the online My VAC Account and the dedicated liaison officer from the RCMP with Veterans Affairs doing educational symposiums.

People became aware that they could apply for benefits. At the same time, this government, or actually successive governments regardless of stripe, have been reducing stigma and increasing awareness of mental health injuries. There are “it's okay to not be okay” messages and Bell Let's Talk days. All of those things have been happening in concert, so whether you're a member of the RCMP or a municipal police service, the stigma has been breaking down to come forward with whatever the injury might be. Here we are today seeing a lot of growth in post-traumatic stress, as well as hearing loss and tinnitus and all sorts of different benefit applications.

They have increased, but I think that's Veterans Affairs Canada being a victim of its own success and other things that have been happening in society as a whole.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

In that regard, I remember in the previous meeting you mentioned that your organization indicated that about $8 million of investment in proactive mental health will support and generate up to $15 million in savings if this is going to be implemented.

Do you still stand by the numbers?

[Brian Sauvé]

I do. That was, I believe, in our federal budget submission from last fall, and there has been a lot of work done through the RCMP and the University of Regina, or CIPSRT, about what's called the mental health model. It is about giving cadets, as they go through training in the first number of years of their career, the ability to learn what mechanisms and what they can do in their day-to-day life will help them to be more resilient.

Dr. Carleton at the University of Regina will tell you that the RCMP hires extremely psychologically healthy people, beyond the average of the Canadian populace. This mental health model is now available to be expanded to the entirety of the RCMP population.

In addition, we have adopted and modified somewhat the world-class reintegration program from the Edmonton Police Service, which is peer-led. If I'm involved in a member-involved shooting.... For example, the members in Tumbler Ridge might now have a fear of going into a school. How do we reintegrate them slowly from a peer-led perspective to be fully operational and not be afraid of schools?

That has been showing great success. I think 86% of members who have gone through that program have been returned operational. The mental health model is one thing. The tools to be more resilient and the reintegration program are for those who have experienced some form of psychologically traumatic incident where there's a barrier to being operational. That program can bring them back to work.

[Chak Au, Conservative, Richmond Centre—Marpole, BC]

Good, thank you.

Going back to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Sorry, MP Au, to interrupt.

We now go to MP Powlowski.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Sauvé, we have spoken many times. You know what I'm going to talk about, which is getting more RCMP for Thunder Bay. They have been trying, but there are just not enough new people coming out, and when they do come out, they seem to end up going into contract policing, where you have a contract with forces like on the Prairies. I know there are measures in this budget that would hopefully improve our ability to recruit new people, and the extra money for cadets and the 1,000 new officers.

You said it's going to be over 1,000 over three years. When can we expect to have more boots on the ground?

[Brian Sauvé]

As a full complement, we have more boots on the ground almost daily. Weekly, we have troops graduating from Depot in Regina.

Now, as far as federal policing is concerned, I continue to pressure the commissioner about our serving members in contract policing who have identified a career desire to move into a federal policing role—whether that be in Thunder Bay, Sault Ste. Marie or Windsor—that they be released and their ability to transfer and move on with their careers should be moved forward.

When we went through the COVID pandemic and Depot had to shut down, it caused a challenge for turning out cadets. It's almost a year, a year and a half, challenge to get back up to capacity. Divisions in the contract world were holding on to their resources and not allowing them to transfer out because there weren't enough coming in from Depot to replace them.

We're at a place now where that argument doesn't hold water in my world anymore. If you want, as a member of the RCMP, to leave La Loche, Saskatchewan and move to Thunder Bay, then you should be allowed to do so.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Maybe you could explain why that is still happening. I take it then that the police themselves would like to have that ability and they do want to go to federal policing. Why do they want to switch over to federal policing?

[Brian Sauvé]

I think it depends on any member's career progression.

Some love the uniform and will do the uniform for life. Some want to do it for a certain period of time and move into proceeds of crime or move into VIP protection or border security or national security.

I think one of the competing pressures we saw coming out of the challenges with recruiting and training through COVID is that we saw a reinvestment or an increased investment by different provinces and jurisdictions into their provincial police services agreement.

For example, the Province of British Columbia invested $230 million, which we're very thankful for, to fill previously frozen positions in B.C. The Province of Saskatchewan authorized filling that province up to the annex in their contract, and the Province of Nova Scotia similarly. There were all of these competing demands for every cadet who was graduating out of Depot and, unfortunately, up until now, federal policing has been on the back burner. I'm glad to see it's now on the front burner.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Has it changed? From what you said, it could be that the individual jurisdictions would deny their officers' requests to transfer to federal policing, but you're saying now that has been changed?

[Brian Sauvé]

I'm saying it's my perspective that the argument for holding someone back in La Loche, Saskatchewan or Airdrie, Alberta shouldn't hold water anymore, because there are enough cadets who are going to and graduating from Depot, so they should be allowed to transition to their new roles if they've identified federal policing as a role they'd like to go into.