Public Safety Committee on March 24th, 2026

[Erin O'Gorman]

I said 750 officers.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Vallée-du-Haut-Saint-Laurent, QC]

You said 750 officers?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Yes, it's 750 officers and 10 cohorts.

We lose up to 300 people because of attrition and departures. In recent years, that figure has been about 150. This means that we'll be able to train approximately 850 candidates in Rigaud over the next three years. We don't think we'll need Chilliwack. If we find that we need Chilliwack, we'll use it. If we train 750 people, minus losses because of attrition and people who leave, we have the capacity—

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Vallée-du-Haut-Saint-Laurent, QC]

We won't argue about math. I know that, in the past, with the number of people who were trained and the people who left, things would more or less break even. It balanced out. There weren't many more. With the surplus, I expect that there will be more officers and that attrition won't be taken into account. According to my calculation, that makes 840. You say you'll be okay with only two more cohorts in Rigaud. Is that right?

[Erin O'Gorman]

In past years, we had additional expenses. In recent years, it wasn't just attrition. We had money for other government initiatives.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Vallée-du-Haut-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Okay, but I'm talking about the recruitment of the 800 new officers. We're not talking about the other 200 officers, because they won't be trained in Rigaud and they won't have their firearms course. I don't want to argue with you, because you're very good and it's hard to be right with you. However, I know it's going to be difficult with just Rigaud. I was hoping the two extra cohorts from Chilliwack would serve as reinforcements for the border officers who, I will say, are short on human resources. You know, in my opinion, the Canada Border Services Agency plays a crucial role in security, but also in regional economic development.

In addition, as Mr. Powlowski said, being so tight on human resources prevents you from addressing the situation in the port regions and from having a different and less rigid business model. I find that the agency is rigid and not creative. It doesn't innovate to help small regions manage and develop businesses using a much less rigid model. I find the agency is rigid.

The fact that you are recruiting 1,000 new officers over three years, or rather 800 officers, won't provide more officers to Valleyfield or Mr. Powlowski's region to take care of small or medium-sized ports, which are important partners in the supply chain. That's very disappointing for us. Even though it's in the budget, Mr. Powlowski and I know we won't have officers at the ports. We know this because you chose other ports that already have or will have infrastructure, and that's very disappointing.

I'll discuss it with the minister again this week, but it's a struggle that Mr. Powlowski and I share because these are our regions, and we're expecting flexibility from the agency, but we're not seeing it. We know you're short on resources, but we expect you to be able to do more with less in that case. However, we don't sense that political will in your organization.

I wanted this message to be heard because this is the reality for a number of Liberal and Bloc members here. Our ridings are located along the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence River. We're at our wit's end because the agency isn't supporting us in developing new, less rigid, more modern methods that take change into account and the way business is done in port regions.

I don't know if I have time left, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

No.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Vallée-du-Haut-Saint-Laurent, QC]

That is my appeal to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Yes, we heard it clearly. It was clearly expressed but, unfortunately, time is already—

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Vallée-du-Haut-Saint-Laurent, QC]

That's fine. As part of my study, I'll have time to ask you other questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

It's already done.

Mr. Lloyd, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

I'm going to start with Ms. Geddes.

I asked the minister if you had any studies or internal analysis on whether the gun confiscation plan, which will cost nearly $1 billion, will actually reduce crime. Can you tell this committee if you have any documentation of this kind that you can share?

[Tricia Geddes, Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

I'm happy to provide you with more details on the analysis that went into the design of the program.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

I'm not asking about the design of the program.

People don't build a playground in this country without a feasibility study, and your government is putting $1 billion into a gun confiscation regime, money that could be spent on so many different law enforcement and public safety priorities.

Do you have a study that says this policy is going to reduce violence and crime in this country?

[Tricia Geddes]

I think the minister referenced one of the most critical reports we received, which contained the results of the Mass Casualty Commission, the results of a truly tragic event, with a great amount of—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

I'm sorry. The Mass Casualty Commission made recommendations, but it didn't provide any academic analysis on whether the gun confiscation policy would reduce crime. In fact, I think there are many questions about why numerous reports were made that the killer in that case had illegal firearms—he did not have a firearms licence—and nothing was done about it. I think that's a question that many Canadians still have today.

The fact is that you've evaded the question. Does the government have a study that shows that gun confiscation will reduce crime?

[Tricia Geddes]

We have a number of studies at Public Safety that show the comprehensive approach that you have to take in order to reduce crime in Canada, particularly gun crime. This is one element that the government has chosen among many other elements that we are investing in. There's border enforcement to deal with the illicit flow of firearms—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

We have a program of nearly $1 billion, and we have no study that says there will be a concrete reduction in crime as an outcome.

Changing tack here, I see in the departmental reports that the funding for the disaster financial assistance arrangements is dropping from $1.1 billion to $156 million. That's an 86% cut in DFAA funding. We know that disasters are getting more widespread. How can this government cut that funding by 86%?

[Tricia Geddes]

This is a formula. Upon receipt of invoices from provinces and territories, we provide, according to a formula, an amount that is meant to compensate the communities and the provinces and territories that have suffered through an event.

The funds allocated to us in any given year can fluctuate year over year. You see it in our reports at the end of the year.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Do you anticipate that those funds will increase beyond the departmental report?

[Tricia Geddes]

Certainly.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Okay. Thank you.

My next question is for the CBSA.

I recently learned that the vehicle identification numbers of exported vehicles are being used to clone or mask stolen vehicles in Canada. CBSA has engaged in what I consider to be a monopolistic arrangement with a private sector company to provide them with a monopoly on exported VIN data, which is then sold through comprehensive vehicle reports to used car dealers at a cost to them.

Why isn't this information being provided free of charge by the CBSA to registry agents so that our registries that are registering vehicles can spot stolen vehicles that are being used from exported vehicle VINs?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Our arrangement with Carfax and Équité, which is a not-for-profit, is working. We've had good feedback. The number of stolen vehicles is down, and the work we're doing with them and with law enforcement is showing results.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Why isn't this information being provided? I can go on the CPIC website and put a VIN in and find out if it's a stolen vehicle, but the government is giving this information specifically to a for-profit company, which is charging its customers for this data. This is data that could be highly useful in stopping the selling of illegal stolen vehicles in Canada. Why is the government not providing this information?

[Erin O'Gorman]

There are privacy aspects related to this that we have worked out with the Privacy Commissioner and these organizations.

I'm not aware of them profiting off of this. It's a non-profit. We are providing them with information, and they are working with law enforcement.