Public Safety Committee on March 24th, 2026

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

That's fair. I'm going to move on.

Do you think that when a convicted first-degree murderer and child rapist who is supposed to be serving a life sentence is released into a community for 72 hours unescorted, as in Oshawa recently, it creates a loss of confidence in our government's ability to prioritize community safety?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Ms. Kirkland, I appreciate the question you asked with respect to this issue. What I will say is that we have a system in place. We have the Parole Board of Canada, which makes those determinations. These are not political decisions, nor are they made by Public Safety. They are made by experts.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Excuse me for interrupting. I just want to check this. Was your office at all aware of or briefed on the Oshawa case prior to it happening? Were you aware that it was going to happen?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I believe it may have been concurrent. I believe they were maybe on the same day. I did get some heads-up, I think, at the time this happened. I was advised that the Durham Regional Police were very much involved.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Yes. Durham Regional Police issued a warning that we should watch our backs.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes, but I will clarify that, Ms. Kirkland, because it's been a number of weeks. I will clarify the sequence.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you. I would appreciate your clarification on that.

I've heard from hundreds of Oshawa residents, like loved ones of Darren Pepin, who were outraged by the temporary unescorted release of first-degree murderer and child rapist Ray. Do you personally feel that these individuals have a right to be outraged by his release?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

People have a right to feel safe in their community, and with issues around public safety, when someone's rights are violated—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Be very quick, Minister.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

—and when crimes are as heinous as what we saw with Mr. Ray, it does outrage—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Will you commit to reviewing it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry; I have to interrupt.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I will commit to getting back to you with the information, and then I'd be more than willing to discuss what other options there are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

Thank you, Ms. Kirkland, and thank you, Minister.

Mr. Ramsay, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

First of all, I'd like to acknowledge the nomination of Mr. Dakalbab.

Congratulations.

Minister, Canadians have heard what appear to be conflicting messages about the nature of foreign interference and transnational repression in Canada. Can you help us clarify what is happening and the roles and responsibilities of law enforcement and our security agencies?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Dr. Ramsay. It's a very important question.

I will ask Director Rogers and then Commissioner Duheme to answer, and then I will add my perspective.

[Daniel Rogers, Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Thank you, Minister.

CSIS continues to be very concerned with issues of transnational repression and foreign interference generally in Canada. We continue to be very vigilant against the threats from many different countries, and our assessment of that has not changed substantially over time.

That action on our part looks like, as we have said before, intelligence collection, sharing information with law enforcement, community engagement and other types of actions that could disrupt foreign interference. For our part, we remain vigilant against all of the threats that we have previously described.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I will add to that.

We work very closely with the service. We have to understand there are two distinct mandates here when we're looking at foreign actor interference. We are aware of foreign states that engage in such activities in Canada. You saw this in the inquiry—the foreign interference commission led by Justice Hogue—that looked into that. You saw my public statement in October 2024.

We're seeing foreign interference as well as transnational repression. We're seeing threats, intimidation and harassment. We're seeing physical and online violence as well as the surveillance of communities, political dissidents and their families. There is interference in Canada's democratic institutions and electoral processes, which we saw last time.

It is something we take very seriously. I stated in media interviews that sometimes it can be challenging, from a law enforcement perspective, to bring charges through the judicial process that exists and connect a foreign entity and its involvement. We work very closely with the service on that to reassure Canadians that information is shared. We also work well with law enforcement across the country.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

If I may add to this, it is very important to recognize that we have faced a number of threats over the years in foreign interference as well as transnational repression. It has impacted many communities. As I meet communities across Canada, I hear this in different parts of the country.

One thing that I want to assure Canadians is that every single issue of foreign interference or transnational repression that involves another country is addressed, sometimes through bilateral channels or sometimes through the criminal justice system. We have one particular case that is going through the courts in British Columbia as I speak. It is absolutely critical that every single Canadian, regardless of where they came from and regardless of the country in which they were born, live in Canada free of intimidation by any foreign actors.

We're absolutely resolved in ensuring that those who seek to interfere with or repress Canadians—those who are outsiders and who are state actors and non-state actors—are held to account.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, honourable member.

That concludes the first part of today's meeting.

Thank you, Minister. On behalf of all the committee members, I want to extend our sincere thanks for your time today.

I believe most of the other witnesses are staying with us, so we will say goodbye to Minister Anandasangaree.

I am suspending the meeting for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

We'll resume the meeting.

I have two things to say before starting the second part of this meeting on supplementary estimates (C) for 2025‑26.

First, there will most likely be a vote in the House at 5:45 p.m., which means we will probably have to end our meeting by 5:15 p.m. at the latest.

Second, I was wondering whether we could quickly obtain the committee's consent on a motion that was debated by the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, which met about two weeks ago. The motion reads as follows:

That the study created on Thursday, September 18, 2025, by the committee regarding the role of the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) in supporting maritime trade in the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence corridor (Highway H2O) and the study created on Tuesday, December 2, 2025, by the committee pertaining to the agreements concluded between Canada and the United States to allow for the clearance of containers at Canadian ports, be merged into one study; that the committee undertake no more than three meetings as part of this study; and that the first meeting of this study take place on Thursday, March 26, 2026.

Does the committee wish to adopt this motion?

(Motion agreed to)

This enables us to continue for the second hour of this meeting with the officials who are in front of us.

We'll start with MP Caputo for six minutes, please.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. O'Gorman, you saw my exchange with the minister, clearly. You are aware that last time you provided a figure—I think you probably know what I'm asking about—regarding the number of people who are on warrant at this time. Last time, it was 32,000.

How many is it?

[Erin O'Gorman]

As I am sure you know, because it's public and updated regularly, there are 33,000 people on immigration warrants right now.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I actually didn't know that. I don't have the time every day to check.

Things have gotten worse since the last time you gave us that number. In fact, there are more people at large now on warrants who are foreign nationals and who, as far as I can see, are illegally in the country because there is a warrant for their arrest.

Every time we come to committee, we're told that it's going to get better. Can you tell us why it got worse?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I have never testified about things getting better or worse. I testify to what CBSA is doing.

Since the last time I was here, CBSA has increased its weekly removals by 50. We've gone from about 400 a week to about 450 a week, but the number of cases coming into our inventory has also increased, from about 500 a week to about 600 a week.

It's not for CBSA a “better” or a “worse”. It's about executing on our enforcement mandate.