Evidence of meeting #30 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
That was very precisely done and precisely ended. Thank you.
MP Ehsassi, you have six minutes.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our two witnesses. I found your opening remarks quite informative.
I saw you were sitting here while the CBSA witnesses were testifying. By happenstance, was there anything they said that you may have disagreed with?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
No, I don't think they said anything I would characterize myself as disagreeing with.
However, I believe the CBSA would benefit from having a mandate, which they touched on, recognizing how valuable and important it is in terms of trade development, as opposed to just fulfilling that regulatory model. Certainly, part of your questions and part of their answers dealt very much with that regulatory side, but the CBSA is critically important in creating trade flows and giving Canada the tools it needs to diversify.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
In your remarks, Mr. Hamilton, you referenced the fact that the three ports you're responsible for—Hamilton, Oshawa and Niagara—are, on average, 50% underutilized. What is one supposed to attribute that to?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
What I actually said was that the overall St. Lawrence Seaway is 50% underutilized, so we could handle double the cargo through the system. Today, there are, let's say, around 35 million tonnes of cargo that could go through, but when you have road that, in normal circumstances, is over capacity and rail that's running at capacity, and you have 50% capacity on the seaway, it's a tool that's available to Canadians to develop and take advantage of.
Liberal
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
It's better synchronization and probably some productivity work, but really, it's attracting a different type of cargo to the system. The system was built traditionally to effectively bring steelmaking and materials in, and take agricultural products out of Ontario. Now, those markets.... While agriculture is booming, steelmaking is on the decline, especially with the transformation to electric arc furnaces and a different type of raw material. It has created capacity. We should look at where the cargo is growing, and that's in containerization.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you.
Now, I'll go to Madame Viau.
We heard from the CBSA about the container screening initiative and the treaty between Canada and the U.S. One thing I'm still uncertain and unclear about is whether there is a threshold for the screening devices that are used for containers coming in. We kept hearing the CBSA suggesting that the mobile scanners were not as accurate. I don't know if those mobile scanners meet the threshold or the standards that are contained in this bilateral agreement.
What is that threshold? Do you know what the legal threshold is in the agreement?
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
Thank you for your question.
I have no knowledge of the threshold you're referring to. However, I can say that in Valleyfield, we used the agency's service for many years.
The agency used mobile equipment. Containers would be set down on a paved area, and then customs officers from Lacolle would come and do the work. They were scanning containers electronically with mobile equipment.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
I understand that. I get that.
However, in their responses, they kept saying that these scanners are not as accurate as regular scanners. I'm wondering whether that's any semblance of a justification on their part.
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
We never got any explanation. No one's ever said that.
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
At the time, the service was provided in Valleyfield without any problem.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
I understand that Valleyfield is approximately 60 kilometres away from the port of Montreal. Is that correct?
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
Yes. It's about an hour from Montreal, 60 kilometres away.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Could it be that, from the CBSA's standpoint, they're saying that they're not going to make additional investments at Valleyfield because if they did, then a lot of customers would prefer to come to your port and perhaps this would pose some challenges? Does that make sense? That's the only thing I can come up with as to why they're not accommodating your port.
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
You have to understand that although we're located near Montreal, we're not at all in the same market.
The Port of Montreal is a container port. It's dedicated to large volumes of consumer goods and food products. The Port of Valleyfield is much more focused on diversification, and we handle specialized container cargo. We meet sporadic regional market needs. The volume and type of cargo are totally different. In Valleyfield, it's a service—
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Speaking of that very different type of cargo, was there ever any discussion that perhaps your port wasn't supposed to import containers? Could that have been some of the misunderstanding?
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
I'm not sure I understand the question. We've always been licenced to receive containers in Valleyfield. It was a small volume of containers.
It's a niche meant to accommodate the region. We're talking about products in the energy sector, for example, or specific products for local businesses.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
Thank you.
Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Congratulations, Ms. Viau and Mr. Hamilton. I don't know about you, Mr. Hamilton, but I know this is Ms. Viau's first appearance before the committee. Appearing before the committee is always a little nerve-racking. Thank you very much for being here.
You sort of answered my question in answering my colleague.
The Port of Valleyfield is not a competitor to the Port of Montreal, is it?
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
Not at all.
The Port of Valleyfield operates in a completely different market.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC
The director of the Montreal Port Authority told me the two ports were complementary. She said it worked for her to have customs clearance in Valleyfield. She said it bothered her to have mixed freighters at the Port of Montreal. Since the Port of Montreal manages a large volume of containers, the fact that mixed freighters stopped at Valleyfield was a good thing.
To answer my colleague Mr. Ehsassi's question, it's not a competitor.
Earlier, I asked the CBSA representative how many people it takes to clear 20 containers to 30 containers of mixed cargo. She said it took two agents eight hours using the mobile radiation portal.
Do you agree?
