Public Safety Committee on March 26th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You time hasn't been affected.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Toxopeus, are you aware of CBSA's detector dog service 90-day leave policy?

[Cathy Toxopeus]

I am.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

With that policy and specific female handlers within CBSA, it's been raised repeatedly as a human rights concern. We've been told time and time again that it's been addressed, yet as recently as March—this month—the policy still doesn't really clearly reflect protections for women. Do you feel that there's a straightforward fix to that? Is there anything you would add to the fix on that?

[Cathy Toxopeus]

The 90-day policy has been updated, as you said, and it applies across the board. It's not just specific to women. It's general to everybody, to every dog handler. Whether they are on extended leave, whether it's maternity or paternity leave or extended leave related to medical, they are allowed to continue on as detector dog handlers, provided a series of things are met upon their return.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Do you believe that it should require an individualized human rights-based assessment in every case in order to have it fixed?

[Cathy Toxopeus]

I don't think so.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Do you believe that it was a human rights violation?

[Cathy Toxopeus]

I think there was no clear national policy. I think that's been rectified since then. I think it's better serving and more nationally consistent, and it is now in line with any perceived inconsistencies with any sort of human rights violation.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I would like to suggest that the fix is actually very straightforward. The policy simply needs to clearly state that any application of the 90-day rule must be assessed—

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Madame Kirkland.

Go ahead.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Anybody who knows me knows that I almost never do this, but this is totally irrelevant to what we're here to talk about. We're here to talk about the ports and their ability to clear...to have customs services at the ports. How is this related to the dogs, the human rights and stuff? Maybe it's important, but it's totally off-topic.

At some point, you have to bring it back to the topic at hand. A lot of us want to hear what's happening with the ports and the CBSA. This is important to a lot of communities: Quebec City, Hamilton, Thunder Bay, Goderich and Picton. There are a lot of people who actually have some interest in this subject. I would urge her to return to the subject at hand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you.

That's an invitation and advice that Madame Kirkland might want to take into account.

MP Caputo.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Look, I really like MP Powlowski, but I can't agree with him here. At the end of the day, a standing order has to be offended. No standing order is being offended.

We are looking at a study that has a wide berth. Central to CBSA doing its job is the culture at CBSA. I think Ms. Kirkland is well within her rights to explore that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you for that piece of advice, MP Caputo.

Now, as you might expect, I want to reduce and condense these types of interventions. As MP Powlowski just mentioned, we want to go to the matter of this study.

MP Ehsassi, if it's a point of order, I can turn to you. Otherwise, we will continue.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Yes, it is, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I wanted to thank you for having pointed out that all members should be respectful and efficient in our approach in this committee. That is why I agree entirely with what Mr. Powlowski has said.

The reality is that the issues Ms. Kirkland is raising are very significant—there's no doubt about it—but we have a study that will be looking at—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Is this a point of order?

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

In addition to that, I don't think—

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

What standing—

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Excuse me. I didn't interrupt you. I'd appreciate it if you didn't interrupt me.

In addition to that, I don't think Ms. Toxopeus is general counsel at CBSA, so it's not fair to subject a witness who is here to questions that don't fall within the ambit of her responsibilities at the CBSA.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you. The questions of wisdom are well understood.

Let's try sticking to the matter of the study, respecting also the freedom and the time that Ms. Kirkland will want to use to continue her intervention.

The time was stopped, MP Kirkland. You can now resume with your questions.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

As a woman here, I would say it is awfully lovely to see the men across the way mansplaining what I need to do to ask the questions on a committee that I have a right to sit on. I would appreciate it if they would stop interrupting so that I could get to my questions.

Does either of you believe that a female employee at CBSA should ever be discriminated against by a manager or their employer for becoming sick or pregnant? Just give a simple answer.

[Cathy Toxopeus]

No.

[Daniel Anson, Director General, Intelligence and Investigations, Canada Border Services Agency]

Not at all.