Evidence of meeting #30 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
I think you have to see the big picture.
Developing an agile and competitive network means ensuring cargo is delivered close to its destination. You have to look at ports as a whole.
I would refer you to the very enlightening Chamber of Marine Commerce study. It says Canada relies heavily on its main centres, undermining supply chains. Allowing various ports to open strengthens the system and security throughout the chain.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC
Two customs officers for eight hours, twice a month. We can't ask for anything better to economically develop our region and the Port of Valleyfield.
It might not be a big deal for the agency, but I don't understand how it doesn't see the importance of the Port of Valleyfield for the region and supply chain. That's how I feel.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
Thank you, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.
Madame Kronis, you have five minutes, please.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to ask Mr. Hamilton some questions.
I listened to both of you speak, and of course I come from Nanaimo—Ladysmith, where we have a number of ports that are actually grappling with the same issues. One issue is this: How do we realize our potential by getting CBSA agents in sufficient numbers to be able to realize the significant opportunity that sits in front of us?
Of course, it is an exciting time for Canada's ports, because there are those bottlenecks on the road, and there are the bottlenecks in the chain; the challenges are there, and you are in a situation where you have capacity and you want to help.
My first question is this: What's the timeline for your plan to realize your potential for getting to that full load?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
The AR facility—which, again, will be announced on Wednesday—is probably a great example. From the time we're told we have the necessary legislative approval to go ahead, we would be operational in somewhere between four and six months.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Do you have that legislative operational authority to go ahead?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
We have it; it will be granted conditionally on Wednesday of next week.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Congratulations. That is really exciting.
In terms of the infrastructure plans that are going to support that, how much economic growth...? You talked about the seaway being underutilized by about 50%. What's the percentage for your port, for your particular facility?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
Up until now, between ourselves and Hamilton Container Terminal, which is our partner on the site, we've invested in the acquisition of land and equipment, development of the rail and the readiness of the property. It was a bit of a gamble. We never thought the permit or the licence would take this long to receive, but we're in for about $60 million.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Did your costs increase because of those government delays?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
Yes. Maybe we were a bit naive to believe that it was such a simple and cut-and-dried case. We've had a fairly substantial burn rate in maintaining and holding on to those assets while we weren't able to utilize them.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
What's driving that burn rate, in terms of coordination? We have a national supply chain to build, or to rebuild or expand, in this space. What's driving those delays?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
Driving the delay has been in some ways the process that CBSA has in place for deciding the merits of a facility and whether it should be approved or not. What's been driving the cost, in our situation, is the cost of capital. We've had close to $60 million tied up for a couple of years now just waiting to try to move forward with the project.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
I know there are a number of port CEOs in this country who have a lot of empathy for those remarks.
We did hear from CBSA that it doesn't have economists in-house and that it does have to rely on Transport Canada and trade. It sounds like there are a lot of fingers in that cookie jar, in CBSA's decision-making.
Do you know of any plans to make that better, in terms of the things that are slowing down their decision-making?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
You bring up an extremely important point. There's been a certain amount of finger-pointing that has gone on historically in waiting for Treasury Board or Transport Canada to tell us. However, in the budget, we were very encouraged to see that CBSA was asked to work closely with GAC and Transport Canada in a collaborative way to decide which facilities it should move forward with and where the business cases are.
That was only in October, so we're still seeing how that develops. There's certainly a recognition, and we're appreciative of it, that it has to be a team sport that shouldn't leave CBSA on its own because, again, it is designed to be a regulatory agency.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
What I hear you say is that the pace of the government is actually a major factor in your ability to succeed in this endeavour, and it's been debating this for six months.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
Six months ago, the requirement for collaboration was announced in the budget.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Is that collaboration in place?
What I hear, on the one hand, is that we need to build at speeds we've never built at before—there are wonderful announcements—and on the other hand, what I'm hearing here is that there are a lot of agencies that still have their hands in the CBSA cookie jar. You're six months in and there's actually no assurance that they're going to come out of that cookie jar.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
I'm sorry for interrupting. It's the same pattern as earlier. It's a great question, but we need to move on to MP Ramsay for five minutes.
Liberal
Jacques Ramsay Liberal La Prairie—Atateken, QC
Although the budget was tabled six months ago, it was passed only recently, thanks to the co-operation of our friends opposite.
Mr. Hamilton, Ms. Viau, you say the Canada Border Services Agency is hindering development. I'll ask you a simple, yet complicated question.
What would be the impact on your revenues if you had the services you want?
Roughly how much money does that represent? How many millions of dollars?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
We certainly believe it has the potential to represent well over 25% of our business in the short term. We think Hamilton would—again, I'm picking the low-hanging fruit—move about 200,000 containers through our facilities. Along with that would come the investments that go into the distribution network and the other pieces that come in. We're a fairly sizable organization now, with about $55 million in revenue.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority
We can see it growing to that level with containers.
Liberal
General Director, Société du Port de Valleyfield
For us, our operations aren't on the same scale as the Port of Hamilton. It may be a little harder to put a number on it. What we don't know about are future business opportunities, since we don't have the licence right now.
If we refer to the Chamber of Marine Commerce study, this could represent new business revenues of $5.8 million for Valleyfield.