Public Safety Committee on April 23rd, 2026

[Neil Dubord]

There have been some projects put forward on the east coast in relation to stolen autos. As we know, there were a high number of stolen autos being shipped overseas out of the port of Montreal. Several projects came forward with joint resources, and they were quite successful in doing that. The issue is whether those projects can be sustained or were just a push after a media story came out.

We hope we can get some sort of sustained enforcement in the particular area of stolen autos, because we believe as many as 60% of stolen autos are being shipped overseas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, MP Au. I'm sorry. We have to turn to MP Ehsassi for five minutes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you also to the witnesses, who've been very good.

I will start off with Mr. Dubord.

I have to say that what I heard from our colleague opposite was quite sobering. He said that this thing about the ports in B.C. is an open secret.

How long would you say this has been going on for?

[Neil Dubord]

I was a deputy chief in the Edmonton Police Service, where I spent 25 years. I came to B.C. in 2012, so I can talk specifically about 2012. It was well known in 2012, so it has certainly been known for the last 14 years.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

You talked about the need for security clearances.

I understand that a security clearance can be undertaken for prospective employees, but given the state of things you have alerted us to, what needs to be done?

[Neil Dubord]

We thought about that with Mr. German's report. We thought about how to implement such a policy when there are already close to 30,000 employees working in ports. The thought is that it has to start from the beginning. When you're hiring new employees, it has to start there. Let's put in a policy that would see any new employee hired needing a security clearance or validation. As people move up or get promoted, they could also require a security clearance. There could be another opportunity to work inside as people move to different jobs or move up in the chain of command.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much.

What would you say is the best report you could refer us to that talks about some of these challenges at the port?

[Neil Dubord]

It's very interesting that, when we did the research—the literature review on the particular report that you have in front of you now—we didn't see a tremendous amount of information. There was a report, back in 2001, that came forward in relation to the disbandment of the port police in 1998 that we referred to, and it had some information, but we didn't find any other significant reports that were done, sir.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much.

Now I'll go to Mr. Auclair. Mr. Auclair, you were talking about how the St. Lawrence Seaway was a nation-building project. Would it be fair to say that the money we're now committing to ports and to harbours is the most ambitious thing we've done, on this particular end, since the St. Lawrence Seaway was created?

[Serge Auclair]

Well, as you know, I may be a bit biased regarding its importance and how great the seaway was as a project. However, in my understanding, building up our infrastructure—especially with the fact that we want to increase the east-west economy in Canada and that we want to increase export and imports—and, obviously, building up infrastructure that will be able to support and enable companies to participate is certainly a project that could be called nation-building. That's for sure.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I didn't mean to say it's as big as the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway. I was just saying that, since then, this would probably be one of the biggest nation-building projects.

You spoke about this: How should we be using more ports that will ease pressure, not only on our highways but on railways as well? Could you elaborate on this so that more members are familiar with the facts?

[Serge Auclair]

Many years ago I was involved in the port industry. I was an executive. I remember a project that CN wanted to do in Milton. I'm not sure whether that project ever came through. There was a lot of opposition from the public.

Ports already exist. They have their footprints. In many cases, there is capacity. Would it make sense to use that footprint to bring things by ships, containers or other cargoes directly to ports? In that situation, you don't have to increase and increase the footprint of certain of these rail yards. Again, it's nothing....

Society has changed. I remember 40 years ago, when I was much younger, people didn't care much about things happening in their neighbourhood, but now, getting social acceptance is a huge issue. Before throwing new projects on the table and trying to do them, can we optimize the assets we have and try to see how we can use some things that already have social acceptance?

Milton is probably, to me, the poster child of what can be done in terms of rail. You can use these yards for products when you have no choice other than to move them by train.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'm sorry, Mr. Ehsassi.

Let me turn to Madame DeBellefeuille

You have two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Auclair, we're going to continue our discussion.

You are very familiar with the sector I represent, the seaway and the Port of Valleyfield. We have a Glencore plant that processes ore. We're close to General Dynamics, which has received a lot of federal contracts to participate in the military effort. This is an area with a lot of economic development.

We feel that it would be inexpensive to support the Port of Valleyfield so that it can participate more in development. It also specializes in northern transportation.

How can you explain this kind of resistance from the CBSA and its refusal to do customs clearance? Do you think it's in the seaway's interest when the government resists serving small ports all along the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence River?

[Serge Auclair]

I think that, in some cases, there may be a lack of information or data to look at that. I can give you an example. As you know very well, we own land in Sainte-Catherine. Private companies have set up shop nearby. Quite a bit of cargo transportation is generated in the sector. I'll give the example of de-icing salt. Given the winter we had, we didn't have an excess of that. We needed more. The facilities in Côte‑Sainte‑Catherine are sometimes an example of what we don't look at and what we aren't aware of. Of course, it may be less visible.

Salaberry-de-Valleyfield is a city with a glorious industrial past. There was processing, particularly in the textile sector. Therefore, there are some major companies. We're talking about rearming Canada and our commitment to spending 5% of our GDP on defence to meet the threshold set by NATO. There are going to be needs. It can't be concentrated in one region.

We tend to want to build a lot of infrastructure, but the problem is that it is sometimes too late to meet our needs. In this case, we're talking about an investment, first in equipment, then a little in personnel, that enables us to optimize an infrastructure that is already there. Once again, the idea is not to build infrastructure and say that the traffic will come afterwards. It is already there. The idea is, along with the players already there, to see how we can increase traffic and create opportunities for shippers. There isn't necessarily a one-size-fits-all model. In Europe, they use the river system a lot. I often cite the example of the Rhine system and the inland port of Duisburg.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mrs. DeBellefeuille. Two and a half minutes always go by too quickly.

Mr. Lloyd, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses, both those here virtually and those here in person.

Dr. Dubord, it's a pleasure to have you here again.

We had a previous committee study in which a witness talked about the non-resident importer program being used to bring in precursor chemicals. As Delta's chief of police, did you have any experience with that program, and do you have any comment?

[Neil Dubord]

I have a short comment on it. We didn't have direct involvement with it, but we were aware of the program that was going on. It saw some success in relation to what the CBSA was doing along with the RCMP.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

The non-resident importer program....

[Neil Dubord]

I'm sorry. Something was half cut off there. Please say it again.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

My understanding is that the non-resident importer program allows people a streamlined basis to bring goods into Canada. Do you have any experience with that program and any thoughts on that?

[Neil Dubord]

I do not. I'm sorry. I couldn't comment on that.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

We had witnesses from Transport Canada at our last meeting, and they were talking about how, since the port policing program has been removed, there's been a streamlining of accountability. Do you have any comments about those statements from Transport Canada? Do you think the ports have become more accountable since the port policing program has ended?

[Neil Dubord]

The policing program provides a number of different things beyond enforcement. The visual presence of uniformed police officers within the port is something that we supported in the recommendations of the Peter German report and that we support now. This is something we haven't been able to see. I think the unions certainly disagree with it fully, as well as the port operators, because there's an immediate slowdown.

I can tell you our experience when uniformed police officers were going to the Delta port—and specifics in dealing with whatever the incident was—because we would deal with the 911 calls that would come from there. The ports would typically shut down during that time. They wouldn't operate during that time because the police were on site.

There need to be two investigative arms to a good enforcement program. The first one is the intelligence arm. Obviously, the CBSA works very hard at that, doing risk assessments, and that's the accountability, I believe, that Transport Canada would be talking about. The second piece is the uniformed presence. We all like to see the uniformed presence and the police cars in our cities, and that does something in relation to prevention.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

You sort of already answered this question, but can you tell us what the gaps are in enforcement and protection of the ports?