Evidence of meeting #40 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-22.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Saad  Chair, Privacy and Access Law Section, Canadian Bar Associaton
Surgenor  Counsel, Canadian Constitution Foundation
Hatfield  Executive Director, OpenMedia
Alqazzaz  Executive Director, Canadian Muslim Public Affairs Council
McSorley  Senior Fellow, Centre for Free Expression
Tiwari  Vice-President, Strategy and Global Affairs, Signal

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rhonda Kirkland Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thank you.

With Bill C-22, we're not talking about a minor amendment. It goes to the core of how Canadians' privacy is protected, how their digital communications may be accessed and how confidence in our institutions is either strengthened or weakened for years to come.

We as Conservatives are committed to seeing part 1 potentially become law before the summer adjournment, but part 2 raises some serious concerns for us—and for all of us, it should—as we've listened at this committee over several sessions.

There's major government overreach and significant expansion of government authority, and I truly believe that this bill needs further study if the committee is going to fix this flawed Liberal surveillance law. When legislation touches Canadians' private communications and personal data, our responsibility is to slow down, to examine it carefully and to fully understand the consequences before proceeding.

We have also heard a CSIS official acknowledge that no technical system is 100% secure. Lawful access mechanisms could be exploited. At the same time, the Public Safety minister acknowledged that trust is undermined when Canadians do not understand how their information is used. That goes to the heart of this issue, so we have to ensure that every risk is examined and every safeguard tested. That requires time, scrutiny and care.

Canadians don't want us to rush. They're asking us to get it right. We shouldn't be racing.

Accordingly, I'd like to give verbal notice of the following motion:

That the committee report the following recommendation to the House:

That the House grant the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security the power to divide Bill C-22, an Act respecting lawful access, into two parts provided that:

a) Bill C-22A consist of clauses 2 to 40, which would amend various Acts to modernize certain provisions respecting the timely gathering and production of data and information during an investigation, including amendments to the Criminal Code, the Foreign Publishers Advertising Services Act, the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and the Cannabis Act;

b) Bill C-22B consist of clauses 41 to 47, enacting the Supporting Authorized Access to Information Act which establishes a framework for ensuring that electronic service providers can facilitate the exercise, by authorized persons, of authorities to access information conferred under the Criminal Code or the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act, as well as consequential and related amendments to the Intelligence Commissioner Act;

and that both bills contain provisions that will subject them to a parliamentary review, such as those contained in clause 48.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Thank you for that notice of motion, Ms. Kirkland.

The time is up, MP Caputo, unless it's a point of order.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Mr. Chair, thank you very much.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Is it a point of order?

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

This is on privilege, and I would like to move the following privilege motion that, given that (a) the Privacy Commissioner provided documentation to the committee in relation to the study of Bill C-22 but that documentation was not distributed to the committee in a timely manner, preventing members from preparing for his appearance and incorporating his recommendations into amendments prior to the original deadline; (b) OpenMedia provided documentation to the committee, but it was not distributed in a timely manner, preventing members from preparing their testimony; and (c) Apple provided a brief to the committee over one week ago, but that documentation has not been provided to the committee ahead of the deadline for amendments; it be resolved that, in the opinion of the committee, the members' privileges have been breached; that the clerk be instructed to compile the relevant facts and evidence; and that those facts and evidence be reported to the House.

Mr. Chair, I don't think anybody likes to move a privilege motion, but—

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

I have a point of order.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

MP Housefather, go ahead.

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Mr. Chair, you previously ruled today that this wasn't privilege. You actually ruled on this point, which is the subject of this motion. A motion cannot be moved on a point of privilege, and it cannot be moved, particularly, since you already ruled on this, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

I'll give a few more seconds to MP Caputo, but....

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

With all due respect, that was actually with respect to Mr. Lloyd's point of privilege. We have now learned—

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

This is—

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

I have the floor here, please. We have now learned that—

An hon. member

No, you don't.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

No, this is a point of privilege.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Yes.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

The motion that you're moving, what you call a motion of privilege, as MP Housefather has already said, I already ruled on that point earlier.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Well, no, this a different point of privilege—

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

If there is something else that you would like to point—

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Yes, there is something else I would like to point out: Amendments were due yesterday. That wasn't the case with Mr. Lloyd's point of privilege. We found out that three witnesses who came here today—

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

I'm sorry, MP Caputo, I know you have things to say, but we have witnesses to hear.

If it's not related to the matter dealing with business—

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

Privilege takes priority over committee business. It is privilege—

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

I'm sorry. I am the chair, and I'm going to say clearly what I said earlier, which is that I have already ruled on this matter of privilege.

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

You did not rule on my matter of privilege.

The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos

Is this something new?

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC

This is something new because we were asked to put in amendments yesterday—