Evidence of meeting #15 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was smrs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan
Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.
Again, we're glad you were able to join us tonight.
We're now going to the five-minute round, and this time we begin with Mr. Tochor.
June 9th, 2022 / 7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'll start with the Canadian Nuclear Laboratories.
Do you know what private sector company has the most indigenous employees in Canada?
7:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Laboratories
I believe it's Cameco in Saskatchewan, which is a uranium mining and processing organization.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
Absolutely. I'm very proud of them. They're located in northern Saskatchewan, with a stellar environmental record and record on economic reconciliation that cannot be matched. I'm very proud of that company's involvement.
When we talk about the jobs that come from nuclear, I was lucky enough to meet with some of the union representatives from the nuclear industry in Ontario. Their message—and I'd like your comment on it—is that we would ramp up, and it's a good thing to have shortages, as in there will be more staffing, more employment and more families to get paycheques from nuclear energy.
Would that be a fair assessment?
7:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Laboratories
I think that's a very fair assessment. As we touched on a little bit earlier in the conversation, this is going to be a growing industry. You are going to need not only the scientists and the engineers, but also skilled trades to execute these construction projects, and you're going to need skilled operators to operate these plants.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
We're really hopeful, with the EV technology that is coming onboard, that we'll lower our emissions, but what's the point of an electric vehicle if it's going to be powered by natural gas or other energy sources? Nuclear energy seems like a no-brainer.
We've heard before that we'll never meet our doubling of the electricity needs on EV with existing technology. Is there anything that would be anywhere close to nuclear?
7:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Laboratories
I think this is probably an opportunity to see and to discuss how nuclear ties into hydrogen fuels going into the future.
Regarding the ability of today, basically hydrogen is produced mainly through electrolysis or catalysis. It requires a fairly significant amount of energy—basically fossil fuel energy—to be able to make that happen.
The beauty of a small modular reactor or even a larger reactor is that you can use that process heat. Remember that a reactor produces heat to produce steam to turn the turbine to make electricity. With that process heat, you have the ability to produce hydrogen, not only to produce electricity but also to produce hydrogen so that you can fuel the vehicles.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
Thank you.
I'll switch gears to Dr. Keefer.
In the last 10 years, have any lives been lost to the storage of nuclear waste in Canada?
7:15 p.m.
President, Canadians for Nuclear Energy
This has been researched, not just in Canada but around the world, and we've not been able to ascertain a single death from stored civilian nuclear waste.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
So it's a misconception; it's not reality that I've been told.
In your example of the waste the would fit in a pop can, how much energy would still be stored in there that we hope, be it by the Moltex design that might solve some of that, or future technology that could recycle that waste? The ultimate, great thing about nuclear is that you might get more energy out of that pop can.
What per cent of energy is removed from that pop can through the first pass through it?
7:15 p.m.
President, Canadians for Nuclear Energy
It's about five per cent, so there's a significant amount more energy in what we call “spent” nuclear fuel, and there are promising technologies that will enable us to access that other 95%.
That was a big part of our plans early on in the evolution of nuclear energy. Obviously we've discovered that there's a lot more uranium in the world, and it's more economical to use that at this time, but certainly these are promising technologies that we should look into it as a tier 1 nuclear nation.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
I'm going to go back to the Canadian Nuclear Laboratories.
We talk about nuclear and the benefits of such. In Ontario—yes or no—would you agree that it's a good thing that we got rid of the coal-fired generation?
7:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Laboratories
Absolutely.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
Now I'll switch gears to Dr. O'Donnell.
Is it a good thing that we got rid of coal use in Ontario?
7:15 p.m.
Adjunct Research Professor, Coalition for Responsible Energy Development in New Brunswick
Certainly, and we're hoping to do the same in New Brunswick. We have a coal-fired plant here.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK
That was done through nuclear, and there is no other energy source—and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. O'Donnell—in Ontario that could backfill that coal. Is that correct?
7:15 p.m.
Adjunct Research Professor, Coalition for Responsible Energy Development in New Brunswick
Well, I can say that I've just recently read a study showing that in 10 years we could, with better transmission lines from Quebec and with the price of storage dropping, and wind and solar—
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan
I hate to do this, Dr. O'Donnell.
Mr. Tochor, would you like a written response?
7:15 p.m.
Adjunct Research Professor, Coalition for Responsible Energy Development in New Brunswick
I'll send it in writing.
Thank you.
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan
Thank you, both, and I'm sorry to interrupt.
With that, we're going for five minutes to Mr. McKinnon, please.
7:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for joining us today. There are so many questions and so little time. I'm going to have to focus on CNL.
I'm dying to ask about things like microreactors, which are very small and so on, and the importance of reactors in the north. What I'd like to focus on first is waste.
Over your tenure at Chalk River—50 or 60 years—you've accumulated a small amount of waste that you have in in-ground storage.
What is state-of-the-art in repurposing that waste? What sorts of new nuclear processes do we need to develop for new reactors to make better use of it? What can we do to harvest that energy?
7:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Laboratories
From a standpoint of being able to harvest the capability and energy inside spent fuel, it's reprocessing. Reprocessing is an option. Other countries use it. We have the capabilities at CNL to provide the technological R and D to companies like Moltex to be able to figure out how to do that and how to make sure that the systems you're putting in place are safe.
From the standpoint of making sure you're getting energy out of the waste, as Dr. Keefer said, there's an awful lot of fuel that remains. If policies lined up and technologies were approved, that fuel could be used for future energy production.
7:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
What kind of research focus do we need to be able to advance that challenge?