Science and Research Committee on June 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Dr. Edwards. Thank you for your testimony. We appreciate it.

We're now going to go to Westinghouse Electric Canada, and President Saab, for five minutes, please.

[Edouard Saab, President, Westinghouse Electric Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and to the Standing Committee on Science and Research for the opportunity to share my testimony of how small nuclear reactors can benefit our environment, the economy, and our fellow Canadians.

As president of Westinghouse Electric Canada, I have the privilege of witnessing the positive impacts that our nuclear employees, services, and technology make every single day.

For transparency, I've spent my entire 20 year career with the Canadian nuclear industry, largely focused on supporting Canada's top performing CANDU nuclear power plants, which tonight are powering six of every 10 light bulbs in the House of Commons with carbon-free energy from Bruce Power and Ontario Power Generation.

With respect to the environment, research conducted by EnviroEconomics and Navius, on behalf of the Canadian Nuclear Association, concluded that, between 2030 and 2050, SMRs could reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 216 megatonnes in the industrial heavy sector alone. This means that SMRs can contribute to Canada's net-zero 2050 objective by reducing emissions an average of 14 megatonnes per year. That's equivalent to taking over three million cars off the road each and every year.

At Westinghouse, it is our engineering-based position that the carbon-free benefits of SMRs, including from our eVinci microreactor, will extend beyond power generation to bring social, economic, and emission reduction benefits to Canadians across our provinces and territories. In reality, the positive impacts of commercial nuclear power continue to be realized today for which Westinghouse has proudly been innovating with for the past 134 years.

This past March, Westinghouse Canada was honoured to receive a $27 million contribution agreement from the strategic innovation fund's net-zero accelerator program. For our part, we will invest an additional $40 million into our Canadian eVinci R and D program. We will create an additional 60 highly-skilled full-time jobs, and sponsor over 250 co-op students. The contributions of just our eVinci microreactor program will stimulate significant spend in Canada's domestic supply chain, and contribute to the advancement of more than 300 highly-skilled individuals. This is in addition to the 250 talented employees already working for Westinghouse Canada today. For context, Westinghouse had a single employee in Canada four years ago. I am witness that nuclear is truly a GDP catalyst.

Federal support will continue to be critical if we are to put Canada at the forefront of this emerging technology. SMRs will provide clean electricity and heat to where it's needed the most, while enabling economic development and job creation.

We as a country, you as elected officials, us as members of industry, must work together to remove unnecessary hurdles that can risk holding up our potential solutions for Canadians, such as in remote communities starved for reliable energy, looking to end their dependence on transported diesel and using eVinci to power year-round greenhouses or desalinate drinking water; in mining sites, wanting to reduce their carbon emissions with a reliable 24-7 power source that can partner with renewables, such as wind and solar; for industrial users with high temperature applications who consume large amounts of fossil fuel today and are seeking carbon-free, high-quality heat for bitumen extraction or even hydrogen production; for indigenous communities, looking to use more energy as fundamental to their economic and social betterment, but wanting, rightly, to have a role in project ownership and management; and at universities, where the versatility of eVinci, as a research reactor, can inspire a new generation of students in pursuing further benefits from this clean energy source, including medical isotope production.

SMRs are truly positioned to help Canada export this technology globally to new and existing marketplaces, building upon Canada's safe track record of exported nuclear technology to six other countries championed by AECL.

Westinghouse selected Canada to accelerate our eVinci commercialization program, because Canada has all the necessary elements to help us succeed. We have true market needs, a world-class nuclear regulator in the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, capable nuclear laboratories under the stewardship of Canadian Nuclear Laboratories, a mature supply chain and domestic uranium mining industry led by Cameco and Denison Mines, extensive nuclear operating experience from Bruce Power, OPG and NB Power, and a strong talent pool of existing and future employees. Finally, last but not least, Canada has a strong international brand, as well.

Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to share my perspective on the potential, and the realized benefits of small nuclear reactors today. I would be pleased to take questions from the standing committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Saab.

I'd like to thank all of our witnesses. We appreciate your time, your expertise and your perspectives tonight.

We're now going to our committee members. We really have a very dedicated committee that is very interested. They're eager to ask you questions.

We're going to begin with a six-minute round.

Tonight we begin with Ms. Gladu, for six minutes.

The floor is yours.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and to all of the witnesses.

I want to start off by talking with Mr. Saab.

I want to start off by correcting some of the misinformation and disinformation that's out there regarding the environmental reviews of SMR projects. We had testimony from multiple witnesses who indicated that yes, they are under environmental review, and that, in fact, those reviews were extending the timeline of the approval of their projects. I want to put that on the record.

First of all, there have been some allegations that somehow nuclear power is very dangerous.

Mr. Saab, how many deaths in Canada from nuclear power or nuclear waste have we seen in the last 50 years?

[Edouard Saab]

I don't have the specific fact, Ms. Gladu, but my understanding is that the number has been incredibly low. Any death related to nuclear has come from construction, not from the operations of nuclear. In fact, nuclear has probably one of the best records for energy generation compared to any of the comparables.

To your point about the environmental assessment and impact assessment, I think it's Bill C-69 you're referring to. The requirement is for an impact assessment for anything over 300 megawatts, but the truth is there is also the allowance for the environment minister to call upon an impact assessment for any project. It's not like anything is hiding under the bill. The bill does allow for the right projects to have the right reviews when necessary.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Absolutely.

We have heard that SMRs are being subject to environmental review, as they should, so I just want to get that on the record.

How many medical impacts do we see in Canada from nuclear power or nuclear waste? My impression is that really we have not had any incidents related to that. As you said, it's all about construction incidents and the like.

[Edouard Saab]

Correct.

Maybe I could just add to the medical side. The other part that might not be promoted as much is the benefits to the medical industry, for example, the sterilization of medical equipment, the cancer treatments that medical isotopes such as cobalt-60 and lutetium provide. There are additional benefits to nuclear beyond power production, which many are not really aware of.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Would you agree, Mr. Saab, that really Canada cannot support its energy needs—as they're increasing over time as our economy grows and more businesses are put in place—without nuclear power?

[Edouard Saab]

That's absolutely correct. I believe science has told us, and also it's been repeated by the former minister of Natural Resources Canada, that there is no credible path to reaching net zero by 2050 without nuclear. The energy—

Sorry, go ahead.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Go ahead and finish.

[Edouard Saab]

The density of energy available through uranium is incredibly high and we need to continue on the generation of nuclear for us to get to a path that Ontario, as discussed, has successfully done in the past several years.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

We've heard some testimony that says there are barriers facing people who are trying to get SMR technology commercialized and sold in the world. What do you think those barriers are?

[Edouard Saab]

I'll speak for myself.

Really, there haven't been significant barriers. At this point, as the other panel was mentioning, it's an opportunity for us to listen, to learn, to understand what the requirements will be and what the expectations will be of end users. That's really the exercise we're going through.

From a technology perspective, we have an incredibly high confidence. Westinghouse has been a pioneer of commercial nuclear for.... I think Shippingport was the first commercial power plant in 1957, so we have an excellent track record. We don't have to be concerned about this technically.

What we need to do is to educate. We need to listen and we need to understand. Then we need to work with our peers. We need to work with industry and also the regulator to ensure that we follow a very credible and very mature path to ensure that we are doing things right the very first time.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

We have heard some concerns that Canada is facing a shortage of trained workers for this industry and that we need to take action to address that. Would you agree?

[Edouard Saab]

I think trained employees are required in pretty much every industry. I think that as technology improves, we're going to see a demand requirement.

I've had the luxury over the last four years in leading Westinghouse Electric Canada. I was that single employee four years ago and we have been able to scale to 250 employees, and as I said before, we want to scale beyond that.

Part of that is engaging with communities, with universities, understanding that we need to promote, to educate, and also to sponsor to ensure that we have the workforce not only for today, but also for tomorrow. It's something we're proud to be doing, because it stimulates the economy. It also generates additional workers for more than just nuclear, really, for Canada to increase the GDP requirements across the country.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

We appreciate your work.

What else can the federal government do to make sure that we grow and make our nuclear industry successful?

[Edouard Saab]

To be quite honest, I'd love to continue to just review facts.

We've been put through very stringent due diligence for what was part of the net-zero accelerator program, and that is incredibly positive. We need to have those challenges put in front of us, so we can work together to inform, educate, and also, where there are challenges we can't overcome, to work with the government to understand funding, sponsorship, and what needs to happen for Westinghouse and for the industry to be successful in Canada.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Excellent. Thank you so much.

I think that's about the end of my time. I saw the card go up.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you so much, Ms. Gladu. I appreciate your comments, as always.

As I said, we have a very interested committee.

We will go to Ms. Bradford, for six minutes, please.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here this evening.

I'm going to direct my questions largely to Mr. Saab.

In a previous life, I interviewed the president of Westinghouse Canada, when the company was located in Hamilton. There was a big power generation plant there.

I'm very interested. Can you tell me where your 250 employees are located now?

[Edouard Saab]

Yes, absolutely. We're spread across southwestern Ontario. We have a manufacturing plant in Peterborough and an engineering office in Burlington. We have two smaller engineering offices, in Stratford, Ontario, and London, Ontario. We also have a satellite office in Port Elgin.

Beyond that, we're also trying to grow in the rest of Canada. We have an employee in Vancouver, B.C., several employees in Ottawa, and we have one individual in New Brunswick.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Okay. That's great.

On scaling up the ability to produce or the government's use of SMRs, while important, it doesn't really fall within the scope of this committee.

What I'm going to be focusing on is the research that your company is doing, either independently or with post-secondary institutions. You have already alluded to some of that. What are the areas of research that are most necessary for the progression of SMR technology?

[Edouard Saab]

What we're looking at right now in Canada is application development. What we are developing is a nuclear battery essentially. We've been able to license the technology from Los Alamos laboratories, and our action has been to scale that technology to allow it to be of commercial use.

What we would like to do with the technology is to provide clean, safe nuclear energy—about five megawatts, which would last about eight years at 100%—and also provide high-temperature heat where required. What we're looking at is not entirely on the device itself, because we have the engineers, the technical capability and the licences to understand that technology.

Where we want to work with universities and communities is on how we can use this technology to really empower and enable.... I used some examples before, in terms of remote communities we've talked to that are looking for clean drinking water, or being able to have reliable heat or to turn electricity on. What we are trying to do with the universities is to really look at those applications.

To be more specific, what Westinghouse has been doing is sponsoring OTU, for example, with scholarships for women in STEM. We've been working with McMaster to understand what we can be doing together to look at technologies. We're also working with the Saskatchewan Research Council to see what applications Westinghouse can do in western Canada. We're not just focused in Ontario.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Okay. You are working with McMaster University and out in Saskatchewan. Are those the two primary post-secondary institutions that you're working with currently?

[Edouard Saab]

We have the sponsorship with Ontario Tech University for the women in STEM program.