Science and Research Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

I will call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 20th meeting of the Standing Committee on Science and Research.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(i) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, June 16, we are meeting on the study of research and scientific publication in French.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules for the witnesses and members.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the videoconference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Please mute your mic when you are not speaking.

For interpretation, those participating through Zoom have the choice, at the bottom of their screen, between three channels: floor, English or French. Members attending in person in the room can use their headset after selecting the channel desired.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can, and we appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses.

First, we have Linda Cardinal, Associate Vice-President of Research, Université de l’Ontario français, and Valérie Lapointe-Gagnon, Associate Professor of History. Both are appearing as individuals.

We also have Éric Forgues, Executive Director of the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities.

We will now have opening statements.

Each of our three witnesses will have five minutes. At the four and a half minute mark, I will hold up this green card. That will tell you that there are 30 seconds left. We want to be as fair as we can to all our witnesses.

With that, we will start with Professor Cardinal.

The floor is yours. Welcome.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Just before we begin, Madam Chair, would you please confirm for me that the sound checks have been done with all the witnesses and that they were successful?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Yes, Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas. We have all our witnesses.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

No, Madam Chair, I'm asking you if the sound checks have been done with all the witnesses and if they were successful.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I believe Madam Clerk has something to say.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Keelan Buck]

I can confirm that we conducted sound checks when the witnesses arrived today and everything's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

With that, we will go to our first witness.

Welcome. The floor is yours.

[Linda Cardinal, Associate Vice-President of Research, Université de l’Ontario français, As an Individual]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you for inviting me to appear before you to present my thoughts and analyses on the theme of research and publication in French.

I will mainly be presenting a few recommendations, but, first, I would like to say that I have been active in this field for 30 years, since I began my career at the University of Ottawa as a professor and now as associate vice-president of research at the Université de l’Ontario français. As you can understand, this is an everyday commitment for me.

My recent work has revealed that there have been three major moments in the development of a French-language minority research space in Canada since the 1950s. I want to discuss one of those moments with you today. This is the result of a research project that I conducted and recently published in the Bulletin Savoirs of the Association francophone pour le savoir, or Acfas.

The first moment was institutional in nature. Many research centres began to emerge at the universities of the Canadian francophonie starting in the 1950s, particularly at the University of Ottawa, the Université de Moncton and the Université Sainte-Anne.

The second important moment was a fundamental organizational development for the minority communities that occurred when a number of networks were established, including, in 1993, the Regroupement des universités de la francophonie hors Québec, which has now become the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne. A new type of publication, summary works, also appeared at the same time, directed by colleagues from across the country.

The third moment is the one I want to discuss today. It occurred during the Montfort Hospital crisis when a new actor, the federal government, joined in the promotion of research and teaching in the Canadian francophonie.

Some 25 years ago, the federal government funded the Consortium national de formation en santé, whose offices are now located at the Université Saint-Paul. It also supported the founding of the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities, whose executive director will be appearing shortly. Over the years, other research centres have been funded across the country, particularly in Saskatchewan. There is also the Bureau des affaires francophones et francophiles in Vancouver. The funding of these institutions is a major lever for teaching, research and publication in French across all our disciplines.

In the past 25 years, the Canadian government has fostered the creation of a research space, but it still cannot say, "Mission accomplished," because its actions were not really planned.

Today, those actions can now be more effectively structured. I believe your committee has all the levers at its disposal to propose measures for a more sustained structuring of French-language research in the Canadian francophonie.

I have two recommendations for the committee.

First, the Canadian government should establish a specific support program for French-language research in Canada that includes foundational activities.

Second, the committee should support Bill C‑13 to modernize the Official Languages Act, in which the Canadian government states that it wants to "support the creation and dissemination of information in French that contributes to the advancement of scientific knowledge in any discipline".

We may return to these recommendations during the period of questions.

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that researchers in the Canadian francophonie have exhibited an undeniably dynamic approach since the 1950s. However, we also face significant sociocultural barriers in the course of our work. One of those barriers is the underappreciation of our work, both our work in French and that concerning the Canadian francophonie. This situation undermines the careers of our young researchers, who, according to the work of my colleague François Rocher, now feel it's better to publish in English.

We are at risk of losing a tradition of French-language research that has been built up over the years by researchers who, like me and many others, have devoted their careers to developing the francophonie and demonstrating that it is a subject worthy of study and one that develops skills that must be acquired in order to participate in public life in this country.

You have previously heard from colleagues of mine at Acfas, an association that I consider extraordinary. They have submitted figures on French-language publication in Canada. The work of Vincent Larivière, at the Université de Montréal, speaks volumes on the subject. I hope you'll have a chance to hear from him.

To enable us to overcome the barriers we face, I invite you to review and expand the Canadian government's role in order to achieve substantive equality between anglophones and francophones in the French-language research sector.

I have stayed within the five minutes allotted me.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you so much, Professor Cardinal. We appreciate your being here.

We will now go to Professor Lapointe-Gagnon for five minutes.

[Dr. Valérie Lapointe Gagnon, Associate Professor of History, As an Individual]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

First, I would like to greet the members of the committee and to thank them for allowing me to speak today.

Since 2015, when I joined the Campus Saint-Jean, which is located in Edmonton, Alberta, I have had a chance to discover the western francophonie, which is complex and pluralistic, and to work in a francophone research setting that is both vibrant and precarious.

The main point of my remarks today is this: no French-language research is possible without healthy francophone post-secondary institutions. However, that research contributes to an understanding of the complex nature of Canadian society.

As noted in the preface to the report published by Acfas entitled, "Portrait et défis de la recherche en français en contexte minoritaire au Canada", more than 30,000 of us, professors, lecturers teaching and research assistants at the post-secondary level, speak French and work in a minority setting in Canada. However, lacking recognition, financial support, administrative support and access to research assistants, we francophone researchers are all too often invisible and forced to reject our language and identity and dissolve into the anglophone mass. This assimilation has thus become a strategy and the only possible path to access to the same privileges as our anglophone colleagues receive, such as research support, the revision of grant applications and access to funding and prestigious awards.

Research in French, which plays an essential role in the vitality of francophone communities, is not always valued as it should be, by which I mean valued as research that is relevant and written in one of the country's official languages, that often focuses, though not exclusively, on specific issues experienced by the francophone minority communities and that serves as a basis for adopting informed public policies that meet the needs of those communities.

At the moment, this research is severely compromised by the tenuous state in which the colleges and universities of the Canadian francophonie find themselves. It is a condition that I know well because the Campus Saint-Jean has been in crisis for the past few years.

In 2020, when the University of Alberta was forced to respond to unprecedented budget cuts imposed by the provincial government, it undertook an extensive restructuring, in the initial scenarios of which the Campus Saint-Jean was to be shut down. My francophone colleagues and I had to turn to other faculties. It was a major loss for the broader francophone community. The Campus Saint-Jean is central to the francophone community and drives its vitality. Thanks to citizen and political action across the country, the University of Alberta was forced to review its restructuring scenarios and chose to preserve the Campus Saint-Jean in toto.

However, constant resistance is required to achieve a desired result. Unfortunately, the Campus Saint-Jean wasn't the only institution to take a major hit. I'm thinking of Laurentian University, which suffered an enormous loss when its French-language programs were cut; of the Université de Moncton, which has financial problems and had to raise students' tuition fees, which restricted access to postgraduate studies for francophones; of the University of Sudbury, which is striving to become the francophone university that meets the needs of francophones in northern Ontario; and of the Université de l'Ontario français, which experienced hard times when it was established.

These major shocks were caused by the chronic underfunding of post-secondary education and a misunderstanding of the special role those institutions play and of the additional costs necessary to achieve their objectives, which go to the heart of the vitality of the minority communities. These aren't merely institutions that contribute to the transmission of knowledge and learning; they are also cultural pillars that enable life in French to go on. I'm thinking of the Campus Saint-Jean, its theatre and its choir. It truly is a gathering place.

To conduct research in French, researchers must be able to aspire to a certain stability and to project themselves into the future. However, that stability is currently nonexistent. How can we attract students who will train the next generation of researchers at institutions whose very existence is in question?

However, every day as I pursue my career, I see the benefits of this research and the major role it plays, particularly for the next generation, in combating linguistic insecurity, the phenomenon eating away at minority communities.

I am thinking, for example, of the case of one student who drew on her rich francophone family archives to tell the story of her grandmother, who founded the small village of Plamondon. That student was one of the first generation to reconnect with French, after two generations that had been assimilated for lack of access to education in French.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

On a point of order, we're not getting translation.

[Dr. Valérie Lapointe Gagnon]

That's just one example among many.

I would like to make a few recommendations in closing.

In particular, the government must contribute to funding for post-secondary institutions of the francophonie…

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

I apologize for interrupting, Ms. Lapointe-Gagnon.

I need to know when people lose translation.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

It was in the last 30 seconds, I would say. It was very brief.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Should we have Professor Lapointe-Gagnon repeat that section?

Professor Lapointe-Gagnon, would it be possible to go back about 30 seconds?

[Dr. Valérie Lapointe Gagnon]

I was probably about to say that the colleges and universities are also cultural pillars, not merely places where knowledge is passed on. I cited the example of the Campus Saint-Jean, which has a theatre and a choir.

To conduct research and create in French, you have to be able to aspire to a certain stability and have the opportunity to project yourself into the future. However, there is no such stability on the ground right now. How can we attract students to train the next generation of researchers at institutions whose very existence has recently been called into question?

However, every day as a professor, I see the major role that research plays for the next generation. That research helps to address the phenomenon of linguistic insecurity now eroding our communities.

I'm thinking of a student who had access to family archives in French. After her family had experienced assimilation for two decades, she was able to reconnect with French and promote that heritage. That's just one example among many.

I'd like to make three recommendations to promote the dynamic nature of research in French and to contribute to its legitimacy and visibility. Allow me to explain them briefly.

First, the government must make a long-term contribution to the funding of post-secondary institutions in the Canadian francophonie…

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

I apologize for interrupting, Ms. Lapointe-Gagnon.

Professor Lapointe-Gagnon, I'm sorry that was difficult. I'm hoping that when we go to the questions from our members, they will ask you about the recommendations.

Thank you for being so gracious. It was difficult without the translation.

Thank you.

[Dr. Valérie Lapointe Gagnon]

Not a problem. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

We will now continue with Éric Forgues, executive director of the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities.

Mr. Forgues, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Éric Forgues, Executive Director, Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the committee for inviting me to appear, and I welcome the fact that the committee is examining research and scientific publication in French.

Given the time allotted to us, I'll get straight to the point.

To intervene in research and publication in French in a foundational manner, it is important to grasp the circumstances in which knowledge as a whole is produced and to have a clear understanding of the institutional framework within which research is conducted in French. Foundational action must be defined in accordance with a strategic vision if we want it to be relevant and effective.

The Canadian government can still support the institutional and university community even though this is an area of provincial jurisdiction. It should provide more support to consolidate the post-secondary sector that provides educational programs in French. It should help universities and colleges develop and expand the range of programs they offer so they can more effectively meet the training needs of Canadian society in both official languages.

It is important to consolidate and develop programs because research develops better in universities that offer master's and doctoral programs.

According to a study conducted by the Sociopol firm for Canadian Heritage, science, technology, engineering, mathematics and information technology programs are provided at francophone universities, and none are available in the provinces west of Ontario. The availability of postgraduate programs is also a major factor in providing an institutional foundation for research. However, the range of postgraduate programs in French is limited and concentrated at certain institutions.

Consequently, it is important to develop a range of university programs in French at both undergraduate and postgraduate levels, particularly in science, technology, engineering, mathematics and information technology, as I just mentioned. This requires foundational intervention upstream from research that can have an impact on research development.

Most francophone and bilingual universities are small and lack the research resources and capacity of the major universities. It is important to bear in mind that the federal research granting agencies, such as the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the National Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada and the Canada Foundation for Innovation, are subject to the Official Languages Act and, under part VII of that act, must now take positive measures to support the development of francophone minority communities. Given what they do, which is to fund research, those agencies should intervene more substantially to support the research activities carried on at francophone and bilingual universities.

It is important that political leadership be exercised to encourage the granting agencies to interpret the Official Languages Act generously by establishing action plans that contribute to substantive equality in the research sector. I would note that substantive equality is a clearly expressed wish in Bill C‑13, the short title of which is An Act for the Substantive Equality of Canada’s Official Languages.

Robust, strategic action is required to protect and promote science in French, starting with support for scholarly publishing in French by the government and research funding agencies. We must support French-language journals.

This must also be done for the francophone public. The francophone population must have access to research findings in accessible French-language formats.

We must develop a strategy, even a language plan for the language of research in French with partners such as Acfas, the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, the granting agencies and the Canadian government.

In closing, here are a few ideas that merit consideration: support for French-language journals, financial incentives for bilingual journals to increase the percentage of articles in French, support for translation into French and the publication of articles originally written in English, support for French-language and bilingual journals to ease their transition to free access, and support for activities designed to popularize knowledge for the general public and knowledge users.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you.

Thank you to all our witnesses. We really appreciate your time and effort tonight. You have a very interested committee who wants to hear from you and ask you questions.

We'll now begin our six-minute round of questioning. Tonight, we begin with Mr. Tochor.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, colleagues.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here tonight.

I'll start with Mr. Normand. What types of services or assistance do researchers need to carry out their work in French?

I'm sorry. My notes are wrong. The first presenter tonight was Ms. Cardinal. I will redirect that, but with the same question.

What types of services or assistance do researchers need to carry out their activities in French, including their research? I'm trying to understand what the issue is, or what services they need assistance with in publishing their work, organizing their scientific events or applying for funding in a different language. I want you to expand on that a bit, please.

[Linda Cardinal]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Tochor. It definitely echoes my recommendation that a specific support program be created for research in French.

As we said, and as my colleague Éric Forgues indicated, we work at small universities where the research departments are, in some instances, very limited. We are setting up a research department at my university. I and another person are the only ones working on establishing that department. We don't always have the necessary support or resources to set up this kind of department. In small universities, especially like ours, we have colleagues who also think that research is important. At a large university, such as the University of Ottawa, where I worked for 30 years, conducting research in French is an issue because it's highly underappreciated. For example, we're regularly asked to publish in English, if we want rankings and public recognition. So we need support to encourage publication in French and to promote the development of research departments.

At English-language universities where francophones work, they're entitled, thanks to the research councils, to submit their files in French, but no one at those institutions can read them. This is a major problem. We have to prepare files in French in order to submit them, but we also have to prepare them in English so they can be read at our universities. When we appear before ethics committees, people can't read our estimates, especially for conducting research in French. These are all examples that illustrate the problem.

Then there's the whole issue of publications. When it comes to developing or working on journals, we're the only ones doing the work. I'm the director of the journal Enjeux et société, and we can't count on any other resources. We aren't at universities that provide support in this area. We can't offer our professors any relief because we're short of professors for teaching. We can't ask students to help us prepare review files or even set up files because, in many instances, we don't have the master's or doctoral programs that would enable us to recruit those students.

In other words, there's a general lack of resources at our institutions that prevents us from conducting research in French.

I don't know if that answers your question. I can cite some other examples, but it seems to me the ones I've given speak for themselves.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I have a follow-up question on that one, Madame.

I've been trying to understand this a bit more. If you translate it into English, it's viewed by some as plagiarism. Is that the journal's procedures or policies? Who sets that? Is that something we could get around by publishing more studies in both official languages?

[Linda Cardinal]

I don't think translating our work into French constitutes plagiarism if we're applying for funding, for example. If I publish an article in French, I definitely wouldn't have it translated for publication in English.

However, it would be interesting to set quotas for French-language articles published in bilingual journals. For a long time now, I've contributed to the Canadian Journal of Political Science, which is my favourite professional journal. I've even written an article on publication in French for that journal. Only one article is published in every one of its issues; all other articles are in English.

So how can we encourage the publication of articles in French in so‑called bilingual journals to which virtually no French-language articles are submitted? Many journals don't have translation departments either.