Science and Research Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2023

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Quirion.

When I look for francophone science diplomacy vocabulary in the federal government, I would say it occurs very seldom, if at all.

As the Chief Scientist of Quebec, do you think the federal government is coming through when it comes to international francophone scientific cooperation?

[Dr. Rémi Quirion]

It is increasingly coming through.

My colleague Mona Nemer and I do a lot of things together. The Réseau francophone international en conseil scientifique was launched in partnership with Ms. Nemer's team. Her team will also participate in the forum on science in French to be held in Quebec at the end of April, even though that is a bit different.

We have to keep pushing to raise the level of recognition of science in French.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

That's excellent. Mr. Quirion, you can count on me to keep pushing, obviously.

Could the federal government do more in this regard? We understand there is collaboration, but are there expectations on the part of the Chief Scientist of Quebec?

[Dr. Rémi Quirion]

We could certainly do more and forge more ties with the three federal funding councils, in particular for Quebec's Fonds de recherche. We can always do better, from an overall perspective.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Quirion.

Ms. Nemer, Mr. Quirion mentioned that you were there in the fall of 2022 when the Réseau francophone international en conseil scientifique was created. However, from the checking I have done and my numerous searches, there has been no communication on this subject from your organization, the Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada, or from the various federal departments.

As well, what explanation is there for the fact that there has been no communication from your organization after the signing of the manifesto for francophone science diplomacy?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I would first like to point out that the office I hold is very different from the one held by my colleague Mr. Quirion in Quebec. In addition to advising the government, he is responsible for the funding councils and therefore has some authority in respect of the research, the science, and the associated spending.

That is not the case for me. My role is to advise the government. In my first annual report, I advocated science diplomacy everywhere in the francophone countries. I believe that Canada has a golden opportunity, together with Quebec, to be a world leader in this area.

Obviously, we have departments that are responsible for the various aspects of our international relations, but I believe that we are increasingly realizing that we, as a country, are very strong in science and we have to use science in our international relations and everywhere that it can advance the public interest and the interests of...

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you kindly for that.

We're moving on to the last of the six-minute rounds with MP Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you to both witnesses for being here today.

As a matter of full disclosure, this study was my idea and I'm glad we're doing it. I think it's very important. It's good to hear some of the initial discussions. My full disclosure is that I used to work in the citizen science world before becoming an MP. At least that was part of my world, both as a professional scientist and as a citizen scientist, so this is something that's very dear to my heart.

I just wanted to bring up some things that Mr. Lobb said. There are citizens out there who are on the land every day—whether they're farmers, fishers, hunters or birders—who are experts in their own right. You can think of citizen science as ordinary citizens doing things for real scientists who just need a lot of bodies across the country. That's one aspect of it. In many cases, the people gathering this data.... I come from the bird biology world. Most of the keen birders out there know a lot more about birds than bird biologists, so it's really valuable to engage them.

I just wanted to perhaps direct a question to Dr. Nemer about the work that some of these groups do, whether they're NGOs or people participating directly in federal government programs. Can she maybe tell us something about the scope of these things?

One real value of citizen science is that it can happen over decades. We have citizen science programs that have been going on since the year 1900. They take place all across the continent. That sort of data is impossible to gather from just a single lab.

Dr. Nemer, maybe you can expand on some of the programs that the federal government itself uses to gather important data for its work, whether it's in environment, weather and climate, or things that are important to Canadians, which really rely on citizen science.

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

Thank you for the question.

Mr. Chair, allow me to express my admiration to MP Cannings for the extraordinary work he's done to promote citizen science. I think we're reaping the benefits of what he started and we need to amplify it.

A number of examples that I listed include a lot of work in terms of the biodiversity—whether it's the birds, the bees or the lakes—in terms of health.

Maybe I'll step back for a second and say that when we talk about citizen science, very often we think about data gathering. Data gathering is absolutely part of it. It is essential and it really enhances the repertoire of the information we have, especially in a country like ours, which is so immense. There's no way we could have information about every corner of the country.

There are other examples as well that really don't depend on data gathering, but actually on sort of playing with the data to provide solutions or to create, as I said, structures for proteins. This is important because it allows development of a drug or medicine for certain diseases. I think we have to appreciate people's imaginations and how astute they can be in terms of using the data for things that others have not thought about.

I just want to give you an example, if I may. During the pandemic, one of my youth council members started a project to basically gather information about PPE littering in nature, along the coast. She developed an app called Marine Debris Tracker. She got many other people involved in this. Actually, it's now funded by National Geographic.

We can have programs that are funded by our own government, and we can also have important programs that link internationally and are funded by international organizations.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Dr. Quirion, I'm really interested in the program you alluded to where people can suggest scientific efforts, become involved with scientists, develop that and get funding. You mentioned, I think, monitoring blue-green algae in lakes. Are there other examples of that? I'll perhaps let you expand on those.

[Dr. Rémi Quirion]

First, I congratulate you and advise you that I will use you as a poster boy for citizen scientists and that scientists can become MPs. That's quite amazing.

Yes, there are many other examples. We could send you more information on that. One is a woman on the street in Montreal who talks about the homeless and how we can probably work together with the help of scientists so that they get better, they can get back to work and they can get housing somewhere. That's a great program. The woman in charge is just amazing. She's fabulous. There are many examples like that.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you.

Now we're going to move on to our five-minute round.

For the Conservatives, we have MP Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Dr. Nemer, my questions are for you today.

Your mandate includes, and I quote, “advising on ways to ensure that scientific knowledge is considered in public policy decisions and that government science is fully available to the public”.

Has the government asked you to produce any scientific reports or advice on the impact that reducing fertilizer emissions by 30% would have on Canada's food production?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

The short answer is no, not on that particular topic.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Okay, thank you.

Have you personally seen any scientific reports or studies to suggest that the government's 30% fertilizer emissions target can be met without decreasing food production?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I can tell you that, if we want to go seriously about our targets, we're going to need to consider actions in many different sectors, including agriculture, transportation and housing, but I think that, in terms of agriculture and agri-food, there are huge opportunities for the country.

I think we need to change our behaviour in terms of food wastage. There are great areas of potential innovation in terms of agriculture, precision agriculture, and we can reap all the benefits of the genomic revolution and even traditional knowledge, which we talk about a lot. We know how we integrated with other things and determined how we can decrease a lot of the fertilizers we're using by enhancing the soil in a natural manner. I think that science can support us in incredible ways in this.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You have not personally seen any scientific reports or studies to suggest that the government's 30% fertilizer emissions target can be met without decreasing food production. Is that correct?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I have not.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You have not seen any science on that.

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

Well, I haven't seen any report on that.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Okay, that's good. Thank you.

Can you please share with this committee what specific reports or activities we should expect from your office this year?

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

This year we're going to be updating the guidelines for science advice and evidence. We should be putting out an interim report on the science for impact assessments. We're going to be looking more carefully—

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Chair, could I just raise a point of order?

I'm not certain what the relevance is in terms of citizen science. Certainly these are scientific questions, but today's topic of discussion is citizen science. I would just ask that we refocus our energies on what's in front of us and why we invited the witnesses to committee today.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

I would view the questioning in order, because we are dealing with science and a science-related topic. I would not rule that point of order in order.

Mr. Mazier, I'll let you continue. You have a minute and 29 seconds.