Science and Research Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2023

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say that I was in Japan recently, and we've been discussing.... I've been in Japan three times in the last six months to work with our allies. I can tell you, in the minds of leaders around the world, it's food security, energy security and supply chain resiliency. I think our Japanese colleagues are looking at what more we can do together. I've been meeting the CEOs of a number of Japanese companies who want to do more with us.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Are you aware of that tweet?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say with respect, sir, that I have pretty busy days, so I don't spend a lot of time on Twitter.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Just so that you are aware, he did tweet that.

Are you aware that General Fusion, the only fusion energy company in Canada, is choosing to build a $400-million energy plant in the United Kingdom instead of Canada?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm more than aware, because I was part of the discussion with the CEO, who I have in my speed-dial. We talk on a regular basis.

The reason behind that, sir, if you want, is that, in fusion, I think we have a leading edge, and, if we want to win, we have to go fast and we have to go at scale. The best way to do that is with allies. I can tell you, just to say between us, sir, I was with the U.K. secretary yesterday to talk about what more Canada and the U.K. can do to promote that great technology, because there's not really competition between us. That's not where the competition is, but if we team up, we can go faster.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Don't you think that, if your government's environment minister supported nuclear energy, these investments wouldn't be leaving our country?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'll tell you that, from my perspective, sir, I see more CEOs calling me to invest in Canada than ever before, so that's not my perception of the market. The CEO of Westinghouse called me. I can tell you that I was with Terrestrial's CEO, whom I've met recently. All of these people know me. We talk regularly. That's not my feeling.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

You don't think his statements have any impact on what's coming into—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm telling you what I hear from CEOs, and they're very keen to partner. I was with SMRs.... We did that, as you know, in New Brunswick. We did that with the CEO of Westinghouse. I talk to all of them, and they seem to be pretty keen on investing in Canada.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

We've had multiple witnesses talk about connectivity, the importance of moon shots, gathering data and stuff like that.

The Liberals promised to lower cellphone bills by 25%, and you claim that this government has achieved this. Do you actually believe this?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

It's from Stats Canada, sir. I believe what Stats Canada publishes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

It says, “Government of Canada” right here.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

It's data from Stats Canada. I do believe what Stats Canada publishes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Do you believe that the cellphone bills have reduced by 25%?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'll tell you two things. I believe the Stats Canada data, and I also believe that we need to do more.

You know me by now. I've been after these guys quite a number of times. We need more affordability, more competition and more innovation, and every decision I've taken since I've been minister has been pushing them and holding their feet to the fire to provide better rates for Canadians.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

We'll move on to the Liberals.

MP Bradford, you have five minutes.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Champagne, for taking time out of your busy schedule to join our committee today. I know that you're extremely busy.

Thank you, also, to all of the other witnesses who are here with you today. It's very important.

Getting back to the area of talent, we know how important it is to have equity, diversity and inclusion at our post-secondary institutions and the representation of life experience in the research being produced.

Can you tell the committee about the measures your department and the government are taking to ensure that diversity is a key driver in Canadian research, for example, gender diversity and ethnic diversity?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Totally, and I'm very grateful to a colleague like you for asking that question, because equity, diversity and inclusion are part of everything we do. In a sense, concerning the tri-agency equity, diversity and inclusion action plan, not only do we talk about it, but colleagues around this table—like you said, esteemed colleagues—do amazing work. They have an action plan in place to make sure that we have more diversity.

We know that diversity leads to excellence, and it's not just me saying that. If you look at data around the world, having more women, more young women.... We've been trying to do that in STEM and have a number of initiatives to bring more women into STEM. We've also been funding Black researchers, as you say. We've put that forward.

We're always looking to do better, and I think this is something that is key for all of us. I think that colleagues around the table could tell you about their specific initiatives, but we do have an action plan, because this is core. This is not just the right thing to do; it's the smart thing to do if we want to succeed. I think everyone recognizes that, when you bring in more people of diverse backgrounds, you get better outcomes.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you very much.

Canada has made a lot of progress in the last few years in advancing research and science in Canada. Can you walk the committee through some of the highlights and accomplishments from our government in science and research from the last few years?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

One of which I am most proud.... When I started as minister—and I think I alluded to that when I did my first comments—our capacity in biomanufacturing was wanting, and thanks to the good work of Iain Stewart, who is here, we now have a biomanufacturing facility. We wanted private and public facilities. We have the likes of Moderna, and Sanofi came.

For me, when I had that role, there was nothing more important than protecting the health and safety of Canadians. Like I said, we didn't choose the pandemic. We don't know what may come next, but we chose to be better prepared. I think this is probably a legacy for generations. We invested about $2 billion to be more resilient, and I think that is something significant.

I also think of the Artemis mission in space. Canada is going to be the second nation in the world to have someone who is going to go around the moon. That's a big thing we should all be proud of. I was talking to Hon. Marc Garneau, and I said I wanted the next astronaut to go to inspire a generation. I said, “Marc, you inspired me when I was young, and I want the next astronaut we have to inspire the next generation.”

We're going to go to the moon. The plan is to go beyond to Mars, and Canada is at the centre of that mission with NASA. It is amazing what we achieved. The James Webb telescope, we're part of that initiative. We've been doing great things, and I think the world is looking to us to partner with that, and I'm very proud.

Obviously, we can always do more. We're looking at that. We've done great things on genomics. We are doing great things on quantum, like I said, and in artificial intelligence, but what I want is to have world-class moon shot projects that the world will recognize. We're negotiating our Horizon Europe with the European Commission. I just hosted the EU commissioner in the last few days, and we talked about that because we're going to be part of the largest research project probably in the world, or at least in Europe. This is where Canada belongs. We belong at the head table, and that's my vision. It's always to lead, to have the best and certainly to push on talent.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Yes, I believe Canada's always punched above its weight in the area, certainly, of aerospace. When the Avro Arrow got cancelled, a lot of our aerospace engineers wound up in NASA. That was a great tragedy because it set us back for generations.

As they say, let no crisis go to waste, so I agree with you that, on COVID, the biomanufacturing is key. A lot of us were upset that Connaught Laboratories had been sold off and privatized, and we didn't have that capability, so I'm glad we're on that.

There's one more thing. We have been successful at creating funding programs that link researchers, post-secondary institutions and industry together to drive innovation and breakthroughs in research to solve some of the most pressing challenges. Certainly with moon shots that would be very important.

Can you talk to the committee more about the government's vision for creating these partnerships and strong roots in communities across the country?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

I'm sorry, we're out of time, but I'm sure Minister Champagne would be okay with a written submission.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Yes.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would just say that Mitacs is part of the answer, where we bring a lot of young people into internships.