Science and Research Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2023

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

I am happy to answer that question because, among all the important work done by my office, we have a plan for open science, which is very important, in both French and English.

In cooperation with partners in Quebec and France, in particular, we are also in the process of exploring the possibility of developing systems for translating all the documents into French, not solely from French to English, to enable francophones worldwide to read scientific publications in the language of their choice. The modern tools now make it possible for us to do things that might have been more complicated before.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I'm eager to see that. I will be following it closely, Ms. Nemer. If you had information to share with the committee, I would be very pleased to be able to see it.

You talked about citizen science, participation, and mobilization. Recently, during the committee's studies, we talked about research and scientific publication in French and we were forced to observe that there is unequal access to knowledge for francophone communities in Canada and, obviously, in Quebec. At present, there is unequal access to opportunities to influence how knowledge is mobilized.

Currently, French is virtually absent from the sciences in Canada. How can we think about mobilizing citizens and the public using science, if science is expressed in a language that doesn't reach a quarter of the population? How do we go about interesting and mobilizing a community if that community does not have direct access to the scientific documents in its common national language?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

I'm sorry to announce that we're out of time, but, to the witnesses, please submit a written response to the question from MP Blanchette-Joncas.

Now we go to the NDP member of Parliament, MP Cannings, for two and a half minutes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'd also like to direct my question to Dr. Nemer.

Dr. Nemer, you mentioned indigenous participation in some of these programs, and I mentioned the fact that one of the advantages of citizen science is that we can gather long-term datasets. Obviously, the longest-term dataset we have is the traditional knowledge indigenous peoples hold under a paradigm different from western science, perhaps.

I'm wondering whether you can comment, in a couple of minutes, on how the federal government integrates indigenous knowledge with science, in order to make sure we capture the extraordinarily important knowledge they hold.

[Dr. Mona Nemer]

Thank you very much for this question, which is very important indeed.

In my office, we're working to develop, if you will, best practices on how to do this. Of course, knowledge gathered by indigenous communities belongs to the indigenous communities. They're the holders of the information. We need to engage, build trust at the start and develop ways that are agreeable to the communities sharing the knowledge...and under which terms.

I must say, though, that weaving together indigenous knowledge and knowledge gathered from western science is extremely important if we want to provide proper evidence on which to build policies in many areas. I would say it's a work in progress. In my group, we have a researcher in residence who comes from the indigenous communities.

Within the Government of Canada, we have help to develop what we call the I-STEM cluster—indigenous and STEM. We're working with indigenous scientists so we can be guided on how to get to a stage where we have both knowledge systems informing our policies.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you so much to our witnesses. Thank you for being here today.

We will now suspend briefly before moving to our next item of business.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Colleagues, we are now pleased to welcome the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry, the Honourable François-Philippe Champagne. The minister will be speaking and answering questions on two of our studies: research and science publications in French and the international moon shot programs.

After the minister's opening statement we will follow the usual order of questioning. Members are welcome to ask questions in relation to either study or both.

Before we begin, I'm going to also allow the minister to introduce his other guests and senior officials with him.

With that, Minister, I will turn the floor over to you.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Minister of Innovation]

Mr. Chair, you are very kind. I'm sorry for my voice, I've been talking a lot these days.

Why don't we start with introductions?

Ted, do you want to introduce yourself? It will probably be easier if we go this way, just to the group and my colleagues.

[Dr. Ted Hewitt, President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council]

My name is Ted Hewitt and I am the President of the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council.

[Dr. Alejandro Adem, President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council]

I am Alejandro Adem, president of NSERC.

[Francis Bilodeau, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Industry]

My name is Francis Bilodeau and I am the Associate Deputy Minister at Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada.

[Iain Stewart, President, National Research Council of Canada]

I am Iain Stewart from the National Research Council.

[Catherine MacLeod, Executive Vice-President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research]

I'm Catherine MacLeod, the executive vice-president of CIHR.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

I'll turn it over now to the minister for five minutes.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

As you can see—

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to get some clarification. The meeting is starting a bit late, and is starting with a round of introductions. I want to make sure that this won't cut into members' speaking time.

So I'm asking the Minister's agreement to having a few extra minutes, so that each member is able to ask their questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you, MP Blanchette-Joncas. I did talk to the minister and we're going to have a full hour once he starts. There will be no rounds missed.

I'll turn the floor back over to Mr. Champagne for his introductory remarks.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to reassure my colleagues: we are here to answer their questions. The Standing Committee on Science and Research is probably one of the most important House of Commons committees. I want to thank each of its members for sitting on the committee.

Before starting my remarks, I would like to repeat what a scientist recently told me: today's science is tomorrow's economy.

I am pleased to be appearing for the first time before this committee, which is an essential one, given the importance of science, and especially of research, for Canada's future and prosperity.

As a member of a government that places great importance on science and on making evidence-based decisions, I am grateful for this committee's excellent work. I would also note that I supported creating this committee during the last session of Parliament.

Today, I am here to discuss two subjects of interest to members of the committee: research and scientific publication in French, an issue that interests me since I come from the Canadian education system in French myself, and international moonshot programs.

Our government has worked hard to support a robust science and research base in Canada and to ensure that we are prosperous and, certainly, that we are competitive. As is the case for all government policies and programs, the initiatives are based on the values of equity, diversity and inclusion.

Just as diversity is a major asset for Canadian research, our linguistic duality is our hallmark and adds to the diversity of ideas, connections and collaborations in Canada and on the international scene. We can all agree on that. As a former minister of foreign affairs, I can say that the fact that our country has two official languages is an essential asset in the economy of the 21st century.

Our linguistic duality also makes us a premier destination for French-speaking researchers worldwide, and that is a good thing. That is why we fund research and research training in either language and we encourage education in French, which is vital and very important to me, as we all know.

For example, grants to assist academic journals have been established to help in exploring innovative ideas and to cover the costs associated with publishing scientific articles. Numerous publications supported by these grants are in French or support the publication of research in French.

There are also science communication skills development grants that support organizations offering communications training for students, scholarship holders and professors in the fields of science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

The Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada conducts two annual campaigns to promote the sciences: Science Odyssey and Science Literacy Week, both of which actively involve francophones and promote French-language content.

I am always ready to hear about new ideas and international best practices that allow for greater equity in the funding and distribution of research in French. I give you my word that we will continue doing our best to accomplish this.

That brings me to the other topic of interest at this committee, moon shot research. You kind of know me by now. I've been ambitious, and I want Canada to have the same level of ambition.

It is vital that we focus our attention not only on the immediate matters we are facing as a nation but also on the long-term challenges and opportunities we face as a society, and I would say, indeed, globally. I want Canada to lead. That's always where I put us when it comes to science, technology and innovation.

Never before in our lifetimes has the importance of science-led decision-making been so starkly apparent as during the COVID-19 pandemic. I would say, in a way, that Canadians have reconnected with science. Certainly, we all owe a debt of gratitude to the exceptional scientists across Canada and, I would say, the world, who have worked tirelessly to help us combat the virus.

To make sure that we are even better prepared for future health emergencies, the Government of Canada is making strategic investments in cutting edge life sciences and biotechnology research.

Colleagues, you will allow me to express with great pride that we have Moderna now, which has invested significantly in our country. When I started as minister, our fill and finish capacity on the vaccines was around 30 million doses. I think today it's fair to say that we're above 600 million doses.

We also have to make sure that we can accelerate the development and commercialization of world-class Canadian research on vaccines and treatments. We must also make sure that we have the essential research talent to build a more robust biomanufacturing ecosystem.

This is why the government launched the biomanufacturing and life sciences strategy, to ensure that Canada has the skills, the experience and the expertise to develop vaccines and therapeutics as a global leader in the life sciences field. The strategy is already showing success through our nearly $2-billion investment. We're seeing global vaccine producers coming to Canada.

Vaccines are just one. The government is generating big and bold ideas, as you've seen, whether it's quantum AI or cybersecurity, which I think are going to be key to the underpinning growth in our national economy.

Mr. Chair, I would have more to say, but I see that you are impatient and that colleagues are impatient to ask me questions.

I'm very pleased to be here.

Thank you for inviting me here today, ladies and gentlemen.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you for the presentation. It was a minute over, so we'll go to 1:07 today.

MP Blanchette-Joncas, there are no worries that you won't get your rounds in.

With that, we'll move on to the six-minute round, with MP Soroka kicking it off.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming today.

I'll be talking more about the moon shot programs. I'm quite impressed that we're going to go down that road.

I'll start off with an easy one, and just remember to keep your answers as short as my questions, please.

Do you think funding in Canada for researchers and universities is acceptable?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say, dear colleague, first that I think we can always do better. I am happy you're asking about the moon shot, because, whether you talk about the Lunar Gateway, the Artemis mission or, for example, the James Webb telescope, I think we're punching above our weight.

We need to continue to show excellence, and we need to put the funding behind it, because, obviously, you need to look at that on a comparative basis in terms of what our G7 partners are doing. We have been doing a lot, I would say. We've invested $14 billion since 2016.

If your question is, can we do more? Certainly. Are we looking at that? Definitely.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

The other day in The Globe and Mail, Steven Chase had an article that one of our top universities is collaborating on vital research projects with Chinese military scientists at the National University of Defense Technology, known as NUDT. The NUDT reports to the Chinese Communist Party's central military commission. One collaboration was on quantum cryptology on how laser interruptions can aid in eavesdropping.

Don't you think this kind of research poses a risk to Canada's national security?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say that I'm glad you're asking the question. I wish the journalist had asked me the question.

I would say very openly to all Canadians that, first of all, this is concerning. It is unacceptable. Second, I've made my voice very clear at the university that I expect them to do more when it comes to sensitive research and IP. We have already adopted guidelines on research security. We'll have the security research centre to help them.

I can tell you today, as a piece of news, that I'm looking at imposing additional requirements when it comes to strengthening research security in Canada, because, to your point, we need to be eyes wide open and we need to ensure that sensitive research and our IP is adequately protected. When it comes to national security—and I think you know me by now—there is no compromise.

There'll be new guidelines issued very shortly.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

That article also says that the NUDT was blacklisted by the United States in 2015. Washington believes it involves or possesses significant risk.

That was the same year that this Liberal government was elected and for eight years you haven't blacklisted the NUDT like the U.S. did. For eight years, this Liberal government hasn't done anything about national security against the NUDT. Why not?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

With the outmost respect to our colleague—whom I admire in the House of Commons—you've heard me before. I'm not going to take lessons from the Conservatives when it comes to national security or science, sir, with respect.

I am the minister. You're looking at the minister who imposed the strictest conditions on research security. I will continue to do so because, as a former foreign affairs minister, I don't think there are many people who better understand what we need to do to protect our research and IP. I'm very committed.

I would think that, when it comes to national security, sir, it's not about a Liberal...or whatever. It's about us as parliamentarians doing what's right for Canada.